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2/5 TT facing 3bet squeeze in aggressive game 2/5 TT facing 3bet squeeze in aggressive game

04-22-2018 , 11:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia
Yes I can. Significantly more so. Ask around.

But my advice is the best advice posted for you. This particular hand doesnt matter.
Your advice was good if I've never played poker before. You made a lot of assumptions based on one hand. I would be folding the TT against a lot of the opponents I run into at 1/2 and 1/3.

As it stands, your advice was useless. I guess you'd advise a marathon runner to tie his shoes.
04-23-2018 , 06:56 AM
OP:regarding Ava being a toolbox, i understand where youre coming from. Defintely a type of ego and attitude that can provoke many people.

That being said, the guy generally gives good advice (and knows what he is talking about)-even though the message sometimes is delivered in a "i am way up here kid and instructing you" kind of fashion.
04-23-2018 , 12:39 PM
Not letting the medium get in the way of the message is a skill that all of us can always improve on.
04-23-2018 , 01:11 PM
There's no way you're clearing $50 an hour at 1/3 if you're posting this thread. Take a deep breath and read some very good advice that Ava read you. Then expect to be ignored by most of the people who give good advice on this forum
04-23-2018 , 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
I disagree with the order and even elements of the list.

The biggest mistake is playing in a game that you weren't mentally prepared for. Even a casual watching of Poker After Dark or High Stakes Poker reruns would have told you that good players mostly raise pf. You should have been prepared to adjust to this.

Wanting to 4bet/fold is the next biggest mistake. You just don't have enough room to do this.

As for the rest, bankroll doesn't have to be an issue if you have the mental toughness to say to yourself, "I'm going to play my game. If my 2 (or whatever) buyins are gone, I'll just move back down and rebuild." You don't seem to have done this, which was caused by my first biggest mistake. There's no way to be "educated" about how to play a new level except by playing it. Reading about it helps, but you have to actually play to understand it. Finally, playing short stacked in a bigger game is a good idea when starting. It makes your decision making easier.
I would argue roll/preparation are about the same thing here - he was nervous at the stakes.

The 4bet/fold is a symptom of this scared poker mentality (I can't lose it all!) which is why it rates below the mental state.
04-23-2018 , 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrucci
OP:regarding Ava being a toolbox, i understand where youre coming from. Defintely a type of ego and attitude that can provoke many people.

That being said, the guy generally gives good advice (and knows what he is talking about)-even though the message sometimes is delivered in a "i am way up here kid and instructing you" kind of fashion.
Because he is actually good at poker and he would almost certainly run over that game at the B.
04-23-2018 , 01:15 PM
I've played a fair bit of 2/5 and one thing I've noticed is that people actually aren't 3betting quite as often as you'd think. The average player is only 3betting {JJ+, AK}, so try not to level yourself into overdefending marginal hands under the assumption that they're squeezing with every AXs and suited gapper they have.

In an aggressive online environment, this is a jam with TT, but I'm not entirely convinced that your 2/5 game is as aggro as an online game until I see that for myself. I'm actually just going to fold TT pre and wait for {QQ+, AK} before I shovel the money in.

Besides, if your opening range is {77+, AJ+, KQ} and your 4bet jamming range is {QQ+, AK}, then your opponents cannot exploit you by 3betting junk, since you have enough combos in your range to fight back and reach MDF. If you don't believe me then do the maths yourself. Count how many combos you're opening, how many you're jamming and how much money the villain is losing everytime he 3bets junk like A3s and then has to fold to a 4bet jam.
04-23-2018 , 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rumor
Because he is actually good at poker and he would almost certainly run over that game at the B.

Sure, and that is true for several other players at this forum too (being able to perform very well in the B 2-5 game). They dont neccesarily have the same ego blown out of proportions though.

Being good at poker and have knowledge about poker isnt really an excuse or free passport to come across as a dick more often than not when you give out advice.

Like i said, i heave learned some very good stuff from Ava through the years on this forum- but at the same time he certainly have some work to do regarding to how he is coming across to other posters. That shoudnt come as a big surprise to anyone using time on this forum.
04-23-2018 , 03:20 PM
FFs I'm going back to lurking.
04-23-2018 , 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
I've played a fair bit of 2/5 and one thing I've noticed is that people actually aren't 3betting quite as often as you'd think. The average player is only 3betting {JJ+, AK}, so try not to level yourself into overdefending marginal hands under the assumption that they're squeezing with every AXs and suited gapper they have.

In an aggressive online environment, this is a jam with TT, but I'm not entirely convinced that your 2/5 game is as aggro as an online game until I see that for myself. I'm actually just going to fold TT pre and wait for {QQ+, AK} before I shovel the money in.

Besides, if your opening range is {77+, AJ+, KQ} and your 4bet jamming range is {QQ+, AK}, then your opponents cannot exploit you by 3betting junk, since you have enough combos in your range to fight back and reach MDF. If you don't believe me then do the maths yourself. Count how many combos you're opening, how many you're jamming and how much money the villain is losing everytime he 3bets junk like A3s and then has to fold to a 4bet jam.
i like this post. thx.
04-23-2018 , 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rumor
There's no way you're clearing $50 an hour at 1/3 if you're posting this thread. Take a deep breath and read some very good advice that Ava read you. Then expect to be ignored by most of the people who give good advice on this forum
Oh no the big boys club is after me! What a circle jerk.
04-23-2018 , 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zkagz
Oh no the big boys club is after me! What a circle jerk.
I was actually thinking the same thing as The Rumor, and when I saw you planned on 4bet/folding more than half of your 50BB stack with pocket tens to a probable light 3bettor pre, no matter how "over rolled" you think you might be for your game, you do have some major leaks in it. Take the constructive criticism however you want but you're the one with the biggest ego itt by far.

/
04-23-2018 , 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000
I was actually thinking the same thing as The Rumor, and when I saw you planned on 4bet/folding more than half of your 50BB stack with pocket tens to a probable light 3bettor pre, no matter how "over rolled" you think you might be for your game, you do have some major leaks in it. Take the constructive criticism however you want but you're the one with the biggest ego itt by far.

/
* Not more than half my stack
* Not 50BB
* I love constructive criticism but not blatantly patronizing insults

Just so you guys remember. Your god Ava had a list with an order of magnitude and the first thing on the list was that I shouldn't play a game that I'm under rolled for. So the most important thing to your god was a complete assumption with no basis. The list didn't get much better after that. I've been on enough public forums to know how this groupthink and piling on of dissident new posters goes.
04-23-2018 , 09:56 PM
grunch

jam. not much thought about it.

you're short stacked and an unknown. half the table probably thinks your in over your head and gonna try to push you around.

if you're thought process is leading toward folding because of the $$, you should move down
04-23-2018 , 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zkagz
Lol could you be anymore of a toolbox?





I was overrolled for 1/3 when I arrived in Vegas 3 months ago. When do you suggest I take some shots?
this makes literally zero sense with the question you posted in the OP.

this is a standard spot for beginners. this is not a spot someone who has won 16bb/hr over a borderline statistically significant amount of hours should be asking about.
04-23-2018 , 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot
this makes literally zero sense with the question you posted in the OP.

this is a standard spot for beginners. this is not a spot someone who has won 16bb/hr over a borderline statistically significant amount of hours should be asking about.
Sorry man. I didn't know whether to fold or shove in this game and I started thinking that if I click it back with this short stack it would look like aces and if he still shoves then maybe he only has pairs over TT. I wasn't even scared money as some here are suggesting. I just wanted to make the right play.
04-24-2018 , 01:06 AM
Wanting to 4-bet/fold reveals a fundamental flaw in your thought process. I agree that you seem inexperienced and should keep playing 1|3. You've been doing really well so far, but you still have a small sample size and I'm guessing not a ton of experience outside of those 365 hours. There is no shame in playing the lower stake for awhile longer while you hone your skills and really make sure you're ready to move up.

When you 4-bet at these stack sizes, villain should not have a calling range; he should shove any hands he intends to continue with. If he's 3-betting light at all then he can't fold everything but better hands to your 4-bet, or he's being exploited pretty badly. Even if his range is somehow only better pairs, you are barely making a mistake by calling, and realistically there's just no way he doesn't have at least some AK in his range. 4-bet/folding is just such a poor play it should not even be considered.
04-24-2018 , 03:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141
I'm guessing not a ton of experience outside of those 365 hours.
Bad guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141
When you 4-bet at these stack sizes, villain should not have a calling range; he should shove any hands he intends to continue with.
No one has suggested otherwise. Thats completely obvious. If he did flat it I would imagine its aces. Believe it or not people 3bet and then fold to small 4bets with some frequency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141
Even if his range is somehow only better pairs, you are barely making a mistake by calling.
You advocate calling the 3bet with my short stack? I just don't think its going to flop well and we'll be looking at a pretty small psr.
04-24-2018 , 08:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zkagz
Bad guess.



No one has suggested otherwise. Thats completely obvious. If he did flat it I would imagine its aces. Believe it or not people 3bet and then fold to small 4bets with some frequency.



You advocate calling the 3bet with my short stack? I just don't think its going to flop well and we'll be looking at a pretty small psr.
He is saying if V shoves over your 4b and his range is exclusive JJ+ a call is only marginally -EV. This is why 4b/f is not an option.
04-24-2018 , 07:06 PM
04-25-2018 , 02:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zkagz
You advocate calling the 3bet with my short stack? I just don't think its going to flop well and we'll be looking at a pretty small psr.
No. You shove or fold.

Not one person has advocated calling, 4! folding, or putting in a 4! less than a shove.

And what's with the parabolic move in your graph from 9K-15K? Did you win 6 dimes in a 1/3 session?

Last edited by BackDoorFlush; 04-25-2018 at 02:52 AM.
04-25-2018 , 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BackDoorFlush
No. You shove or fold.

Not one person has advocated calling, 4! folding, or putting in a 4! less than a shove.

And what's with the parabolic move in your graph from 9K-15K? Did you win 6 dimes in a 1/3 session?
Actually there have been people itt that have suggested calling. I don't think its good.

The giant uptick was a bbj promo score in a 1/2 game. Lucky me.
04-25-2018 , 06:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zkagz



The giant uptick was a bbj promo score in a 1/2 game. Lucky me.


How much of your graph incorporates promo money? Is it just the one spot or are there a bunch of smaller spots incorporated that aren't obvious?
04-25-2018 , 08:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zkagz
The giant uptick was a bbj promo score in a 1/2 game.
OMG you included BBJ jackpots in your winrate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by zkagz
Lucky me.
Yes, you are $14/hour luckier than other players.

I'm busting your balls a little bit, but do you see why you shouldn't include luck based winnings in your hourly calculations?
04-25-2018 , 11:43 AM
FWIW I'm more likely to shove the TT given we got squeezed rather than simply hu 3b.
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