It depends a lot on villain tendencies. I don't find limp/calling weak suited aces to be super profitable but that may have to do with the dynamics of my games.

I am still "meh" on preflop. Folding is fine. Calling is okay.


ETA: I had in my head we had players behind us. With us being last to act, I move into the call camp, although I would tend to raise pre myself here.

I hear you. That's very fair.

I would add one more thing re: the odds. Direct odds are 9.5:1. With the $10 call and like $500 back, we're getting 50:1 stack odds 7-way. Not to say we often make hands that will get second best hands to stack off, or that those are our true implied odds. But given table dynamics... loose/passive villains, the spaz who raised pre... I'm liking it decently well.

Yes i can see the argument for call/call rather than call/shove.

It was sort of a toss-up in my mind, since i felt the maniac would maybe shut it down on the river, since i would only have 250 back, and the 9h brought in some backdoor draws, so if i was going to call i might as well gii.

Please explain your thinking on the bolded. The whole point in playing AXs type hands is for the nut flush/over flush possibility. Also, if we flop mutual trips with someone, you think they're check folding?

This! ^ is it. I'd call with a Birkenstock.

AP: shipping is incredibly unproductive. If you decide to go with it, just call the maniac down.

At what remaining stack size would shipping become preferable?
$150 remaining? $100 remaining?

I definitely hear your thought process man, but there's no reason to expect he'll shut down on the river. In fact, the opposite is true imo. Manaics are gonna maniac. Give him as much rope as possible. If you keep calling, and you get to the river with < 1/2 PSB, he's gonna ship all in - that's what he does.

But there is a stack threshold where we prefer to just shove yes?

Even from a super LAG this seems like a really ambitious bluff.

That's a good question. I think it depends on board dynamics and the strength of your hand. There should be a number of variables.

In the OP situation, if he IS bluffing, it's not likely he has a lot of equity. Like maybe he developed some draw... but probably not... and maybe he has outs to two-pair... maybe maybe not... it's just not very likely he'll out-draw you.

What I'm getting at is that with top pair with the toppest of cards (A) on a board with only a few big draws (one flush draw and one OESD), the relative value of your hand is very unlikely to change on the river, so you don't really mind getting to the river with a silly small bet behind. Totally off the cuff, I'd say if he'll have less than a 1/5 or maybe 1/6 PSB or less on the river (like 100-125 left in a 600 pot), then sure, ship the turn. So you can see, I'd give him lots of rope in this spot.

However, that changes depending on the board and relative strength. For example, say you have top pair with T724ssdd and you have T9, and this guy is such a maniac that still have the effective nuts and are calling him down. Well here, a river J-A beats you sometimes. In fact, if he has 2 overs, he has 6 outs. This board also has two flush draws, 2 OESDs and more gut shots.

So I think you need to estimate the trade-off between giving him rope and getting him to fold any remaining equity. In general, vs. this type of villain, I'm usually going to err on the side of giving him more rope, but you do need to consider the variables.

The stronger your hand is - i.e. the fewer outs he is likely to have - the more rope you should give him. In the extreme case, if you have the nuts and there's no way he can make a better hand, give him maximum rope - let him stick around with 25 chips on the river. He'll put it in the middle almost always and cannot win.

However, if his possible range contains hands with likely outs (like say you have top pair with the T or there's 3 to a flush on the board, so he's likely to have some equity even with his ATC/WTF range), then you should ship the turn instead of letting him stick around with a very small stack and equity, because it makes far less sense to just call the turn if river stacks are going to be like 1/8 PSB on the river.

What sized bets are you willing to call down with such a weak holding? If V is blasting away PSB's otf and ott, into a crowded field, allowing you to reach this magical "stack threshold", and you're calling down with TPNK, then V's in a very good game. He surely doesn't play this way with a hand we beat.