Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
2/5 a tough spot with a red JJ 2/5 a tough spot with a red JJ

04-16-2018 , 12:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momo_uk
We bet and get called. What are we doing on blank turns? Bet again and get committed? I see a lot of good Vs flat sets OTF to get you to commit with your obv overpair OTT.

Aren’t we getting outplayed in such situations?

Also, what about the times, when the turn is a black overcard, we check and get thrown off our hand when V decides to bomb his draw?

If We bet and VI just flats, we should keep barrelling.. I don't think we see a lot of 2P or sets on this wet flop. If VI has 2P or set, VI gotta raise on this flop.. there are too many draw heavy combos on 10h 8h 2s.
Even 3players behind of him.(didn't exactly wrote this mb). I believe that to flat on this flop is what bad regs do. maybe can flat in some specific situation to make a trap in not multi way.



나의 SM-G935F 의 Tapatalk에서 보냄
2/5 a tough spot with a red JJ Quote
04-16-2018 , 02:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twisting
If We bet and VI just flats, we should keep barrelling.. I don't think we see a lot of 2P or sets on this wet flop. If VI has 2P or set, VI gotta raise on this flop.. there are too many draw heavy combos on 10h 8h 2s.
Even 3players behind of him.(didn't exactly wrote this mb). I believe that to flat on this flop is what bad regs do. maybe can flat in some specific situation to make a trap in not multi way.



나의 SM-G935F 의 Tapatalk에서 보냄


I’m not sure I necessarily agree if I think you bet/fold overpairs in these spots.
2/5 a tough spot with a red JJ Quote
04-16-2018 , 03:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit123
minatorr, i really respect your analysis in many spots.

you seem quite advanced in your thinking RE: blockers and how that affects our decisions. could you explain why you would bet black jacks but not red jacks?
We have less to fear by giving a free card as we block flush draws and flushes are less likely to hit. We can also pick up equity on the turn by turning a flush draw ourselves. Makes a huge difference obviously with aces and the heart, not sure if it’s important enough to be changing our betting strategy here.
2/5 a tough spot with a red JJ Quote
04-16-2018 , 05:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momo_uk
We bet and get called. What are we doing on blank turns? Bet again and get committed? I see a lot of good Vs flat sets OTF to get you to commit with your obv overpair OTT.

Aren’t we getting outplayed in such situations?
I have just never thought a flat on these wet flop with sets in multi way. That's why I said we should keep barrelling OTT bc VI's range is most likely having a draw.

Do you really think that a flat on these wet flop with sets is a outplay? There are so many hands to kill a action tho.. a heart comes OTT and VI keeps barrelling. What a outplay with sets..



나의 SM-G935F 의 Tapatalk에서 보냄
2/5 a tough spot with a red JJ Quote
04-16-2018 , 08:40 AM
I see it all the time.

I’m not saying it’s the right move.

But think about it, if you’re nitty and always bet/folding overpairs to raises in these spots, some Vs will notice that and start flatting their nutted hands in position and taking the risk of scare cards falling.

The more multiway it is though, the less likely this is. But it definitely happens.
2/5 a tough spot with a red JJ Quote
04-16-2018 , 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momo_uk
I see it all the time.

I’m not saying it’s the right move.

But think about it, if you’re nitty and always bet/folding overpairs to raises in these spots, some Vs will notice that and start flatting their nutted hands in position and taking the risk of scare cards falling.

The more multiway it is though, the less likely this is. But it definitely happens.
Did I say I always fold overpairs in these spot?
If I didn't have a diamond, I would shove OTT.
In my logic, I prefer to bet in these spot for protecting and get some value as well.

But, I think that's a way play safe that checking OTF and evaluate in OOP. Actually, I've disagreed with it until I saw a explaination from Avaritia tho.. from now I like that. maybe I will try c/evaluate nexttime in these spots.

나의 SM-G935F 의 Tapatalk에서 보냄
2/5 a tough spot with a red JJ Quote
04-16-2018 , 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia
Not minatorr but 1) with J we hate less turns ( turns either maintain our improve our equity) and 2) we also block flush draws which isnt great (with black JJ villain has more flush draws i.e. we get called by a few more hands that arent made)

1 is more important

A very simple way simple way of saying what we are doing when we bet black JJ and check red JJ is:

"With black JJ we hate all turns and prefer to end the hand. With red JJ turns are fine and we can therefore toss this in our x/c range which strengthens our checking range and allows villain to bluff more of his range which is also cool."
Just playing devils advocate here-

If we bet with black JJ or red JJ, and everyone folds, great.
If someone raises (sets, 2-pair, combo draw), we generally fold with both, so same there too.

If someone calls, I would say besides possibly ATs, typical opponent would have most likely a fd, after that oesd. So if most likely opp range is fd, wouldn't we rather have the Jh when called (1 less out for opp, and more equity for us)?

I'm betting both black JJ or red JJ... but maybe that is a leak...
2/5 a tough spot with a red JJ Quote

      
m