$2/$5, 9-handed, $600 effective.

V1 is loose-passive fish.
V2 is reggy, moderately aggro, but kind of loose.
Hero has TAG image.

4 limpers
Hero raises $40 BTN with T9ss
V1 calls $40 MP
V2 calls $40 CO

Flop ($120, 3ways) is Th 9h 2h

2 checks
Hero bets $60
V1 calls $60
V2 raises to $200
Hero ???

What's our plan here?

Preflop is unnecessary spew. You’re too shallow and there’s too many limpers involved to think you’re taking this down pre, and T9s is not a hand that wants to see SPR’s of 4.3x like this hand. Limp behind on the BTN and see a flop.

Our “plan” here is to make better decisions preflop, not how to navigate x/r on monotone flops from possibly aggro villains when we hold top two.

As played - call and call/shove over on blank turns.

Wait until I am in the game to call/shove this board with top two.

If one of my Villains follows this advice it could "make my day".

And if you are x/r the flop with 12 combos of AhTx+ and possibly wider with the A5-A2 variety then it will “make his day” when he snaps off your bluff.

This spot is entirely villain dependent. The real leak worth looking into is preflop.

I don't really have a limping range. If I do limp, I prefer to do it with low to mid pocket pairs or weak suited gappers, rather than strong suited connectors like T9s. I feel that this should be a profitable hand to play in position.

Hell, I've seen people suggest that 3betting T9s in position is more profitable than flatting an open raise, so if that's the case, shouldn't it then follow that iso raising is more profitable than limping behind?

Any 3bet with T9s is a light 3bet, that’s different

As for this hand, I think it’s quite interesting, as you appear to be applying the principles behind light 3bet to a different scenario- isolating or scooping dead limp chips in position with a hand that can flop well or rep well.

The problem is that you don’t iso or scoop often enough, or rep any particularly nutted range post flop, like you do with a 3bet. Therefore you don’t get that same leverage and high win% on your cbets.

1) If we're only raising high cards and high pairs, then we're giving huge implied odds to villains who want to limp-call against us with speculative hands. We need some speculative hands in our range too for balance. I honestly don't see the problem with raising T9s in position, but you could make an argument that I didn't raise large enough pre.

2) Any comments on the flop? Do we continue or let it go?

Mate, don’t discount the preflop error here. It’s significant. Your repped range doesn’t hit this flop, so it’s a crap shoot as to whether people are ranging you JJ+ AxKh or air. As such, it’s impossible to range them.

If you feel this particular V is weighted to hh only it’s a fold. But you’ve created a guessing game. Personally I’d never raise to that sizing with less than a set here and given the loosenpassive nature of most 2-5 at crown you’re likely behind unless this is a reg with QhJc and a mission from God.

Pre seems standard. This hand has good equity against a caller's range, connects decently with half of flops, and the ones that it does not connect with, we can represent, e.g. A74 we can take it down with a cbet.

I would guess it's ~breakeven in a vacuum against a field of limpers to raise big otb with 27o, since it's hard for a limp/caller to continue oop to a cbet in a big pot UI. But obviously, you can't raise 100% of holdings, otherwise people are going to adjust (plus some hands just make more money as limps, A7s imo is a classic example). Raising your better suited connectors seems like a great way to balance your range and take advantage of a profitable spot without becoming so wide that people play back at you. Even with these hands, you're still only gonna end up raising like 10% in this spot (88+, AK, AQ, KQ, AJ, ATs, KJs, KTs, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, maybe KJo, ATo).

AP, I'd let it go pretty easily. Unless V2 is really going nuts with KcTc here, you should be way behind his range. The hand is more interesting if V1 had folded.

Shallow stacks favor high card equity that flop pairs.

Deep stacks favor speculative hands and PP’s that flop strong draws and sets.

With 4 limpers in the pot already and only $600 effective (which is really shallow) you want to be raising for value. T9s is not for value and you are destroying your own implied odds in the process.

There is a big difference between open limping (BAD); and over-limping (OFTEN GOOD).

With two limps already in, a $5 over-limp allows for a small investment and good implied odds. This is, IMO, the only way to play this pre. I might fold if the players behind are huguely aggressive and I’d expect a big raise behind often. This is often not the case in many Passive $2/5 games. Over-limping here is best.

As played, I like a shove OTF here. We still have outs (4) to improve to a boat even if V already has the flush. Flushes on monotone boards are much less frequent than flush draws, so the raise looks bluffy to me often (especially for “moderately aggro”).

Frankly, I’m not sure is flop shove is better than call - shove safe turns. I don’t hate this line either, but I need to know how to react if V bets into me OTT.

I have no problem at all with raising preflop. I do it all the time with these type hands.

However, Ive said it a million times, when you get raised post flop you are almost always crushed. People are passive and dont raise without huge hands very often.

People will say.."He could have a pair and draw....he could just have the Ah". That's mostly a bunch of garbage. There are some players who are that tricky/tough/aggro, but they are few and far between. When you read a poker forum like this one, you see people discussing tricky aggro lines like that but IRL its a very rare player who actually does it.

Of course you have 2 pair here so its much tougher to lay it down than a standard overpair or TPTK type hand, but I still fold to the large check raise. There arent that many people who will check raise AhTx here and even fewer who are passive enough to limp/call $40 and then suddenly become super aggro out of nowhere with that hand. Those people who would limp/call $40 with AT, would almost always check/call this flop.

Id say you are beat almost always and I would fold. Id also be fine with a check back on the flop and then get aggro on any safe turns.

AllTheCheese and Mike.

+1

Raise pre is obviously fine, its good to have some weaker hands in the raising range. Limping behind a good percentage though.