You all simply don't understand the game. If you make a $1 +EV decision and then a $3 -EV decision, you lost $2 of EV.

In this case, OP called OTT and then folded to the 3 . That's negative EV, not positive EV, and it's WORSE than folding OTT. If you don't understand what I just wrote, either give up or start over.

I'm quite civil until trolls start calling me a troll, stupid people start calling me stupid, and bad players start calling me a bad player.

Lol wut? How do you know the river is going to be -EV when you are facing a decision on the turn? Do you even think before you type this garbage?

And how is a river fold a -EV proposition?

70% of the time we don't have the absolute nuts. How can we ever call a shove without the nuts?!? Especially if we ignore the HH were V shoved with a weak 2P, he can only have the nuts, so we're behind always!!

When we play on the turn, we don't know what the river is going to be. It is the same with EVERY hand of poker. You make decisions -- you should have a plan for different streets, but you still have to make the correct decision on the street you are on. It is either plus EV or not to call on the turn -- in this case, as everyone has shown you, it's +EV. It really is not that complicated.

Some of us plan to fold the river to a blank and some of us plan to call. That's villain dependent -- so it's really up to OP at the table to figure that one out.

I totally understand others wanting to call based on the Q2 hand and other info OP gave.

And, we don't know yet what OP did.

OMG!!!
Folding the river is -EV every time you fold the best hand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And it's bigger -EV the bigger the pot gets. How can you be here and not know that?

Seriously, how can you be here and not know that????

If you're not willing to give up poker, at least stop trolling 2+2. Or at least stop trolling me.

Just so I'm clear...your counter to that is to always fold somewhere else in the hand if you might fold the river??? That way you don't have to worry about it amirite?

Did you even read the Q2 hand?

I would love to play with you son.

Best part is you are the only one ITT that doesn't realize you're the troll

No, you're not right. And I hope for the sake of civilization that the vast majority of humans knows that you're not.

Again, if you don't understand that making a $1 +EV decision followed by a $3 -EV decision results in a loss of $2 of EV, please give it up or at least stop trolling me.

He has to know he's trolling. Anyway, kudos BadlyBeaten, your trolling skills are top notch.

Wtf are you talking about in bolded (emphasis yours)

Folding has an EV of 0. Always. It's a pretty simple concept because when you fold you Expect $0 of the pot Value. How do you not understand this?

Sorry you're wrong and trying to talk your way out of it, but you are making absolutely no sense

It's actually quite simple. Making (1) a good decision in a $5 pot, and (2) a bad decision in a $20 pot is -EV.

What if the river fills in our flush or our boat ~30% of the time and we have the nuts? Then what?

Does that factor into your imaginary calculations at all or you disregard that since it doesn't fir your absurd thought process?

BadlyBeaten confirmed troll.

You are correct, and when calling has an EV of $250, folding is -EV.

OP please post results so this thread can end instead of turning into more of an abortion

Agreed though the more Badly Beaten types the more he is outed as a fish and that is probably +EV for the site. Frankly if he keeps this up he shouldn't be permitted to post in strat.

It doesn't work like that buddy. You can't pick and choose how actions happen and you can't warp the space/time continuum to say a +EV decision on a previous street is now a -EV decision because we didn't hit the card(s) we need.

Based on pot odds alone, the Turn is +EV. The river is inconsequential to that action. The river decision to call is +/- EV depending on the range V has, which is debatable, but folding the River is always a 0 EV move

This is so basic that if a poker player cannot understand it they should start studying and stop posting in strat forums until they do understand it.

Confirmed that you don't actually know what EV means.

can i get an amen!

river isn't a fistpump call, but it's still a call. wait, checking the reads again, it is a fistpump.

River ($720) 3
Villain bets/goes all in for $465.
H calls $465.

Villain tables T T

** cue face palm **

Given the action, in a vacuum, my hand is now almost always a fold and can be generally agreed upon that Villain has bet turn & river simply for value.

Given the player and the HH, this edged me into calling. I considered that he was more likely to have a weaker and/or drawing hand than if I were to have played this exact hand with another $2/5 player at Borgata.

I spoke to other players in the room who've also played with him. They've seen him open 20, lead J82hh flop 6-ways, check/raise a 3x turn with QQ and shove on an Ace river OOP, winning the main and side pots when a player folded/flashed A5hh. Though this player showed up with TT here, he has shown a tendency to spazz, to behave aggressively when he didn't know "what to do".

You got coolered and ran into top of their range. I'd still get it in.

How, he played that hand pretty badly on the flop and got lucky on turn and river, but it worked out for him. Can't blame you for the call on the river vs. this guy. Call on turn is a no-brainer.

Results are less than ideal for OP, but it also highlights why the turn/river calls were correct. If Vs are willing to c/c middle set in a multiway hand like this on a flop that smacks Hero's range, V is likely doing the exact same with any flopped two pair hand.