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/5 - Tiny SPR, Checking turn to trap /5 - Tiny SPR, Checking turn to trap

06-05-2014 , 09:41 PM
Reads: Unknown, young, slightly fishy hispanic kid. Seems a tad loose pre flop. All just based on about an hour of observation.

My image is fine, regular TAG. I haven't been too active, haven't got caught on any bluffs (and haven't made any yet).

A straddle to $10. Folds to me with 5 players left to act. A few of them are extremely tight pre flop, the straddler is super loose pre flop. I make it $40 with KQ. Only SB (villain) and Straddler call.

Flop: K44. $260 effective against SB, $350 effective against straddler, so I'm committed against both players.

Checks to me, I bet $40 and only SB calls.

Turn: K447. Checks to me. Is this a good spot to check behind, not for pot control but to increase my chance of getting paid on the river and to prevent him from making a correct fold with QQ or worse?
/5 - Tiny SPR, Checking turn to trap Quote
06-05-2014 , 09:52 PM
My instinct would be to check behind too. You're only really getting value from KJ/KT or a pocket pair that doesn't believe you. There's also a chance he's floating and planning to steal it from you on the turn with a check-raise so you're protecting yourself from that as well (people like to fight back on paired boards like this a lot of the time).

Checking also allows you to probably get a river call from worse or a decent pocket pair like you said.
/5 - Tiny SPR, Checking turn to trap Quote
06-06-2014 , 12:20 AM
Flop bet is a little small: the following street of value (whether that be turn or river) will be pot-sized if you are looking to get it all in versus SB, and greater than pot-sized vs straddler. If you sized more like $75 then it is less awkward.

I also wouldn't say you are 100% committed against both players - utilize live tells.
/5 - Tiny SPR, Checking turn to trap Quote
06-06-2014 , 12:22 AM
$80 flop/check turn/shove river
/5 - Tiny SPR, Checking turn to trap Quote
06-06-2014 , 08:21 AM
It would be a good place to check turn if you had bet more on flop. Only betting $40 leaves SB with a slightly bigger then pot sized stack, which they may be able to get away from on river. When villain checks turn I would be going with $60 here, something they shouldn't fold to after calling flop but will leave them pot committed on river.
/5 - Tiny SPR, Checking turn to trap Quote
06-06-2014 , 09:42 AM
If he is slightly fishy, he may not see your undersized flop bet as trying to keep his range intact. He may interpret that as weakness
The question is how would villain play Kx, decent PPs to turn shove vs you check back turn, bet or shove river.

Villain is never folding Kx to a turn shove
If we check turn, get a blank river card (non A, Q, J, T) he will still call a shove with Kx
Against a scare river card, he MAY not call a shove or if he does, he will win a certain percentage of time

Next is his PPs. Checking turn gives him a free card to boat up. Against a blank river card, you don't know his hero calling tendencies to make shoving river a viable line. You will, however, extract some value with a modest bet

If he has a 4, it doesn't matter

So I like a turn shove. Your flop bet looks weak to him and he may level himself into calling a turn shove with the lol "why so much" thinking
/5 - Tiny SPR, Checking turn to trap Quote
06-06-2014 , 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94
$80 flop/check turn/shove river
^^^this

Your flop needs to bigger to be able to ensure getting all his chips on the river.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using 2+2 Forums
/5 - Tiny SPR, Checking turn to trap Quote
06-06-2014 , 06:10 PM
yah 40 into 120 isn't a great value bet on the flop.

I like the bet/check/bet line though.
/5 - Tiny SPR, Checking turn to trap Quote
06-06-2014 , 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by endodocdc
...
I like this thinking. I would shove turn vs getting sucked out on the river. I think less variance but maybe not as EV as checking in the long run? I R NOOB.
/5 - Tiny SPR, Checking turn to trap Quote
06-06-2014 , 07:18 PM
Putting the stack sizes in the beginning of your post is standard and easier to follow. Also, I assume the UTG straddles but mentioning that would be good. And writing your actual position would be helpful too so that posters trying to help you don't have to decipher the action for themselves. Concerning your reads on the Villain you should have something a little more solid after an hour of play. Have you not seen a single showdown? How do you know that he's playing the way you describe him? Ect... The more information you absorb about players at your table the better you will play against them. And the more clearly you communicate that info the better advice you'll get from this forum. Sorry. I'm not trying to be the posting police, but your weak description is maybe a "2+2" leak and probably a "not paying enough attention to the table" leak.

Grunch
My standard open in an unopened straddled pot is $35 but PF looks good. Your thought process OTF is good: bet small so that Kx and all the PPs between 44 and KK call. I'd prefer a half pot Cbet but flop looks good. OTT you should continue with your plan betting like 40%-50% of the pot to get value from said hands. Checking back the turn and betting the river is almost the same line except you give a free card to all the PP that have a 2 outer against you and wouldn't have called the turn bet. If called I fire again on the river, probably another very small bet. This line certainly isn't going for gold against a Kx hand or JJ, but it's a solid line to extract max value from a wider range.
/5 - Tiny SPR, Checking turn to trap Quote
06-07-2014 , 01:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuffaloHound
Grunch
My standard open in an unopened straddled pot is $35 but PF looks good. Your thought process OTF is good: bet small so that Kx and all the PPs between 44 and KK call. I'd prefer a half pot Cbet but flop looks good. OTT you should continue with your plan betting like 40%-50% of the pot to get value from said hands. Checking back the turn and betting the river is almost the same line except you give a free card to all the PP that have a 2 outer against you and wouldn't have called the turn bet. If called I fire again on the river, probably another very small bet. This line certainly isn't going for gold against a Kx hand or JJ, but it's a solid line to extract max value from a wider range.
By checking back the turn after making a standard c-bet, it is going to be more unlikely in villains' minds that we have a K. I'm willing to live with them having a chance for a 2-outer but paying us off regardless otr versus having them fold because we bet ott.
/5 - Tiny SPR, Checking turn to trap Quote
06-07-2014 , 01:42 AM
Bet/fold 75 OTF; unless you have a specific and detailed read indicating otherwise, it's near impossible to be raised by worse. GII OTT if called OTF.
/5 - Tiny SPR, Checking turn to trap Quote
06-07-2014 , 02:24 AM
I think either check flop,bet turn,bet river or bet flop,check turn, bet river are viable options. But as stated earlier flop bet must be higher if you choose to go that route. Personally I like checking the flop as you said you have a standard TAG image and have shown 0 bluffs.

To answer the post in a vacuum in your situation I'm firing this turn as well.
/5 - Tiny SPR, Checking turn to trap Quote

      
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