I was wondering about these three pre flop scenarios that happened over my last two sessions.

Hand one: 2/5, 9 handed, $700 effective. Based on ~50 hours with villain, he seems to be an aggressive, tight leaning winning player, but looser and more aggressive than the traditional TAG. I've never seen one of his 4 bets go to showdown, but I've seen him 4 bet three times in the past LP vs blinds and two were taken down pre, and one was taken down with ~1/3 pot c bet. This is the fifth time hero has 3 bet this session 2.5ish hours in, and the second time hero has 3 bet villain SB v BTN (no showdown.) The only one of hero's 3 bets that went to showdown was AQo when hero was BTN vs. LAG LJ.

OTTH

Villain opens BTN $20, hero 3 bets SB to $80 J J, and villain 4 bets to $250. Hero? What is your flatting range here? If we call, are we looking to call down non A/K high run outs?



Hand two: 2/5, 9 handed, $600 effective. Hero has a pretty aggressive image. Villain is a good, winning aggressive player who leans TAG, and who I've never seen flat a raise from any position besides BTN and BB.

OTTH

ATC fish open limps +2, hero raises BTN $25 T T, villain 3 bets SB $105, BB, and fish gold. Hero? What's your flat and 4 bet range here?



Hand three: 2/5, 9 handed, $900 effective. Hero has a TAG, but not NIT image. Villain is loose and very aggressive; he seems to have an OK understanding of post flop, but bluffs and gambles too much based on the three hours so far. Aside from premiums, villain has gone to showdown in pots he 3 bet, with KJs when he was BB vs HJ, and ATo when he was BTN vs HJ.

OTTH

Hero opens LJ $25 9 9, villain 3 bets BTN $90. Hero? What's your 4 betting and flatting range here?

I only read the hand action, not the reads/histories. one hand per post please.

In all of these hands you're either way behind, or only slightly maybe kind-of ahead.

I'm leaning fold on hand 1 because we're oop

I think we're ok to at least set-mine IP in hand 3

Hand 2, I lean fold, but I admit I might play too tight in these spots.

hand 3 I'm calling and folding unless I flop a set or a significant draw.

1 and 2 aren't simple situations and to a large degree they are read dependent.

hand 1...with 50 hours, you really should have a better understanding of his play/his view of your play and his likely resulting range to make the right decision vs us with only two sentences of reads. But as Low Stakes said, you're rarely ahead by much, unless he has a 4bet/fold range? My default position...folding JJ to a 4 bet is rarely a bad play at 2/5, so I think this is a fold, but you should know more about this by now from the 50 hours

hand 2 is an interesting spot, particularly if we think about it in relation to hand 1, where you're contemplating folding JJ to a 4 bet in the reverse situation, I do think there's an opportunity to potentially fold out JJ with a shove, as well as deny the equity of a load of suited broadway hands that will fold. However we don't block any of the hands that have us dominated and we're only 55% against his AK hands so we need him to be 3bet/folding wide for a 4 bet to be profitable

If I was gonna take a stand and 4 bet, it would be with 1010

H1:
40% shove 60% call
If you were close to 1k deep or more it’s always a call

H2:
Pure call
Pure 4bet AA/KK/AKs
Mix 4bet low freq - AKo/AQo/QQ/JJ/AJs/ATs/A9s/KJs/A4s/A3s/K9s/KTs depending on how my tummy feels.
Call 22-QQ/AKo/AQo/A9s-AQs/54s-T9s/JTs-KQs/A3s-A5s

H3:
Pure 4bet vs this guy - AA/KK/AKs/QQ/AQs
Mix 4bet 30% - AJs/ATs/KQs/AKo/JJ/TT/JTs/99/T9s/76s/A5s
Calls - AKo/22-JJ/54s-T9s/JTs-KQs/KJs./KTs/A3s-A6s/A8s-AJs

Hand 1 I think is a pretty easy shove against a player who is known to aggressively 4bet.

Hand 2 call, it's going to be an ugly hand to play though.

Hand 3 I'd call, we're a bit deep to 4bet, I don't really want to face a shove from this guy. Also we have no blockers.

Thank you for your responses.

For hand 1 I'm surprised to see advocates for a 5 bet shove. The thought really didn't cross my mind, but that's interesting. I mean we're probably folding out everything besides KK+ and AK?

For hand 2 - we're not getting the right odds to setmine, and it's highly probable that an over is coming on the flop, so is part of the reason we're calling to not be pushed around? Spy - why are you calling all of the low to mid pocket pairs? This isn't a profitable set mining spot. I'm also surprised that you're not default 4 betting AQ - I feel like that's one of the better hands to be 4 betting.

Hand three - I suppose that actually is a pretty straightforward set mining spot, even being OOP.

That's fine. Preflop isn't postflop, it's fine to just protect your hand.

I was saying that as a good thing because we'll fold out QQ, AQ, and more hands that we'll have to x-f the flop against but actually be ahead of.

You're not calling to set mine vs a good Tag Sb 3bet vs Button(iso fish) range. Especially not with TT. If you think you are set mining with TT here you are not thinking anout this spot in the right framework.

Think about what SB 3 bet range is in this spot. Hint it's not JJ+, AK.

Right. So we're calling with a hand like TT to call a c bet with one over or less otf, or to bet if checked to? I assume the purpose of calling with a hand like 22 specifically to set mine, and take a stab when he doesn't c bet? It just seems super wide and unprofitable, but I also don't have the math, nor have I called a hand like 22 vs a 3 bet to do anything besides set mine.

all of which seem like good reasons to 4 ball, no?

Sometimes. I have plenty of 4bet hands so not concerned. I want a balnced 4bet and call range so I'm doing good when I get to a variety of flops and rivers whether I call or 4 ball.

I'm sure there are other ways to split it up, but what I outlined is just how I do it.

But yeah I think you should have both calls and 4bets here.

Was my guess as to why we flat a hand like 22 correct?

Sort of, but also sort of not. There's a little more to it.

I definitely don't 4bet there the whole time with 1010 either

tbh, given 44-88 does pretty much exactly the same against his calling range as 1010, there's an argument for flatting this hand and 4 balling weaker ones