Villain -BB- Loose PF (limp/calling a lot) and playing any suited cards, competent post flop, 30 something guy that is bragging about opening his 2nd 'Major Chain-Store Sandwich Shop' in another week or so... 'My accountant says this, my lawyer says that, etc.'

Hero -CO- LAG'gy but not as 'over the top' as usual as I've been getting looked up quite a bit. Have be caught bluffing a few rivers so my image is pretty nice. Little earlier in the session (vs. another opponent) I check-raised a flop and shoved the turn w/KQss on a 875ss 3x board (As on the river)... my opponent had an 8 (he's played w/me before lol.) Villain in the current hand mentioned this a lot over the next 30min.

$2/$5 No Limit Hold'em - Fallsview - 10:30am - 10 Players

150bb eff. (I cover)

Hero in CO w/QsJc
3 limpers, Hero raises to 8bb, Villain calls 7bb, limpers all fold

Flop: Qd 8c 4d
19.5bb (2 Players) - Villain checks, Hero bets 16bb, Villain calls 16bb

Turn: Ks
51.5bb (2 Players) - Villain checks, Hero bet 28bb, Villain calls 28bb

River: 4s
108.5bb (2 Players) - Villain checks, Hero bets 35bb

-Flop is standard

-OTT I figure if he's on a FD w/the Kd in his hand or was floating me w/overcards so be it (I'll know soon enough) and if he has KQ I was already behind but his most probable holding is some QX hand and my image cultivates a lot of 'non believers.'

-The River is where I figure that I might even get looked up by A high. He can't bluff me as after the 35bb he'll only has 63bb left (if he shoves) and the pot would be 241.5bb offering me ~4->1. After it goes c/c, c/c, c I put him on a busted FD or a bluff catcher.

Would a shove look bluffier or if he does in fact have a QX hand (as per my read) does he now have to call getting ~4->1 himself?

Am I nuts?

I would go into pot control mode on that turn, id check it back and then value bet most rivers or call a bet. River bet is very thin, you may be able to fold him off some chops but i think with your aggressive image he could easily be 'trapping' with kq,aq or even 88.

With the way you played it, i would check back the river and hope to win

turn is cool. hate the river bet. 8d9d isn't calling, TT isn't calling...basically you're chopping or losing to Kdxd if he calls imo. there needs to be some crazy dynamic for him to call w/ A high, crazier than in HH.

I suppose 150 is starting to get deep, but it's still somewhat shallow, and I'm facing calling stations looking to pick me off. Am I SuperNit for folding preflop here?

Made a mistake when I posted the hand...

...the board did not pair on the river.

I was wondering what everyone was talking about when they kept mentioning a chop...

...Sorry everybody

Me too.

It's ok - pretty thin. If he is very loose pre-flop and post-flop, I could see him show up with QT, Q9 here. If he is aggressive at all, he most likely doesn't show up with AQ or any two pair+ hands. You only have to be good more than 50% of the time and I think you have more than 50% of villain's range beat with the bet sizing (I might go closer to 1/2 pot). Anything like 2/3+ bet on the river is not good imo.

yes

check river there shouldn't be any value in this hand unless villain is hero calling you are chopping at best and he's prob calling all better hands given ur image

oh ok, hmmmm...river card does make a difference...still prob a chk

Wow that's thin...

I guess if you think this villain is capable of playing QT or Q9s like that, but honestly is he really calling you 3 streets with a hand like that?

He's def folding JJ, TT, 99, and not calling you with anything worse. The only thing a bet on the river might do is get him to fold QJ or maybe AQ...


Yes he has a good amount of the villains range beat, but the villain isn't calling a river bet with the bottom half of that range. He's only going to call with the top end of his range, most of which has the hero beat.

Out of curiosity, what are you doing if he shoves over your 35bb on the river here? If you say he can't bluffraise you here, you're looking to get accidentally bluffed a decent amount.

That's a pretty weird betsize. I would probably bet more on the river, because you're getting called regardless of if you bet 35bb or like 60bb and you're taking the accidental bluff out of his line.

You say that he can't c/r bluff you here, but I've seen it happen. Your line looks really weird/weak from his POV, and if he has a hand like NFD and he thinks it might be good but is not sure, there's a good chance he thinks shoving > hero call since you might fold a hand like AJ/A10. If you bet more, you take this option away.

There's also a chance you get him to do something silly like throw away AQ if you bet bigger.

You should be valuebetting this river against most opponents with your image.

New here,not familiar with your image other than as stated.
I really like the turn bet(charge draws and you are getting called by worse w/your image) Additionally,turn bet lessens chance for him to bluff river.
I dont see much calling your river bet except a few Qx hands and of course the hands that beat you.
If you are known for betting river for thin value or as a bluff,he maybe would c/r river with his 2 pair or better hands.

river is relevant if you made a mistake you should prob correct it

shove is bad, fallsview game is not soft enough nor tricky enough to make that play +ev, if you had KdXd+ sure, but still close. i'd prefer your current line with that hand.

as played i don't know because i don't know the river, which can be like a 9/5/6 basically any card that can complete a weird combo draw (i.e. a 5 can complete 6d7d)