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Old 08-24-2015, 05:26 PM   #1
Havax
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2/5 SugarHouse JJ Line-check

Hero ($1,100): Late 20s, unknown to the player pool first time visitor to this place. Have been playing very TAG and not involved at all. Have only shown down once and had QQ, have also double barreled once, gave up on the river and lost without having to show.

Tables: Has been very loose/passive. Very call-happy. At least calling flop with any piece to see if they improved. People are mainly opening for $15. Peculiar amount of small 3bets taking place at the table where people are making it $35 overtop a $15 raise with callers in between. Seems to be a weird trend here. Zero grinders at my table except me, all middle aged+ rec players. $1k capped 2/5 game.

Hand: 3 limpers to me in the BB with JJ. I make it $35 all 3 limpers call. They are all $1k effective with me.

Flop ($140): KQT

Checked around. Thoughts?

Turn ($140): 4

Checked around. Thoughts here?

River ($140): 8

Checked to 2nd limper in MP who bets $20. Folded me to me. Hero? (most interested in thoughts on pre-turn streets though)
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Old 08-24-2015, 05:29 PM   #2
iraisetoomuch
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Re: 2/5 SugarHouse JJ Line-check

Raise the river to $40.

Flop looks sexy with a pair+straight draw, but it's pretty terrible imo.
Check seems fine.

I'd bet the turn for $50 or so.
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Old 08-24-2015, 05:38 PM   #3
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Re: 2/5 SugarHouse JJ Line-check

Knowing the player pool, I think I'm double barreling pretty often in this spot. I'm probably 3-betting to 55 as well, and firing like 3/4 psb otf.
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Old 08-24-2015, 05:42 PM   #4
Havax
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Re: 2/5 SugarHouse JJ Line-check

There was no 3bet preflop. Why would you raise the river to $40 irtm? You really think random rec players are thinly value betting 8s and Ts here enough for that to be profitable?
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Old 08-24-2015, 06:23 PM   #5
Willyoman
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Re: 2/5 SugarHouse JJ Line-check

At least 45 pre. Roughly = 20 + 15 for limpers + 10 for oop.

The rest seems totally fine. No compelling reason to bet flop.

Sigh call now.
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Old 08-24-2015, 06:53 PM   #6
iraisetoomuch
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Re: 2/5 SugarHouse JJ Line-check

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Originally Posted by Havax View Post
There was no 3bet preflop. Why would you raise the river to $40 irtm? You really think random rec players are thinly value betting 8s and Ts here enough for that to be profitable?
If we don't think they are betting 8x/TX then we shouldn't call, no? I think people will sigh call with most of their betting range which I think is heavily weighted towards weak 1p hands.

It isn't a slam dunk raise by any means. And it is thin if even profitable, but I think it can be called by worse.
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Old 08-24-2015, 06:56 PM   #7
Javanewt
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Re: 2/5 SugarHouse JJ Line-check

I'd go a little higher pre. I'd also bet the turn. As played, I sigh call.
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Old 08-24-2015, 07:04 PM   #8
sierradave
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Re: 2/5 SugarHouse JJ Line-check

I don't have the discipline to not bet that turn as a semibluff. It'll look like a delayed bet to bad players who don't realize you'd never slow play AJ or KK on that board.

I like betting the turn in the hopes of folding out their queens. Then we can check behind river if called, knowing we beat the draws and the ks aren't folding.
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Old 08-24-2015, 07:11 PM   #9
Havax
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Re: 2/5 SugarHouse JJ Line-check

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I don't have the discipline to not bet that turn as a semibluff. It'll look like a delayed bet to bad players who don't realize you'd never slow play AJ or KK on that board.

I like betting the turn in the hopes of folding out their queens. Then we can check behind river if called, knowing we beat the draws and the ks aren't folding.
I think it's optimistic to think we can fold out a Q on the turn. They won't believe we have a K for one because we checked flop. Secondly, any Queen they have should come with a straight draw AQ/QJ/Q9 and they aren't folding with that equity. Doubt they're even folding Q7s-Q8s unless we bomb which seems like a bad idea.

The only reason I see for betting turn is to get value from Tx. Question is, is that too thin when we've got 3 Vs who limp/call everything pre and are also never folding a Q here?
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Old 08-24-2015, 07:12 PM   #10
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Re: 2/5 SugarHouse JJ Line-check

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Originally Posted by Willyoman View Post
At least 45 pre. Roughly = 20 + 15 for limpers + 10 for oop.

The rest seems totally fine. No compelling reason to bet flop.

Sigh call now.
Interesting formula. I've always used $20 + 5 per limper. First I've seen $10 for being oop. Is this something you routinely do? I'll have to try it.

Also (off-topic) do you ever increase your UTG raise size from your standard (say $20) to $25 or higher with value hands at call-happy tables just to prevent the call train?
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Old 08-24-2015, 08:09 PM   #11
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Re: 2/5 SugarHouse JJ Line-check

Yeah I almost always add 1BB for being oop.

Multi-way oop, I might add another BB.
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Old 08-24-2015, 08:37 PM   #12
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Re: 2/5 SugarHouse JJ Line-check

Lol, I'd just fold. He almost always has Kx or Qx here. Hand seems okay IMO. Betting turn into so many players is spew. Just get to showdown.
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Old 08-24-2015, 09:32 PM   #13
Letmewin1
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Re: 2/5 SugarHouse JJ Line-check

I like a flop check but I think Ax and some PP will make a decent range OTT once flop checks around, so as thin as it might look or sound I like a bet,for value, around 25/30% PSB OTT sounds good to me.

AP
I think most will just bet random amounts because they made a pair not knowing what to do, what hands they are targeting or trying to fold out, I see no real reason to raise since we doubt we'll fold out better but there are worse that would bet once we check, if he has K or Q we'll just take notes.
I vote call.
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Old 08-25-2015, 02:42 AM   #14
progress
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Re: 2/5 SugarHouse JJ Line-check

Call river. Also sugarhouse huh? Played there a few weeks ago. Place was unreal if you ask me. All black interior wtf? And some of the clientele holy moly. 1/2 games there are action action action it was awesome.
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Old 08-25-2015, 11:56 AM   #15
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Re: 2/5 SugarHouse JJ Line-check

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Call river. Also sugarhouse huh? Played there a few weeks ago. Place was unreal if you ask me. All black interior wtf? And some of the clientele holy moly. 1/2 games there are action action action it was awesome.
I called and the guy rolled over 88.

SugarHouse was pretty interesting. I like the dark atmosphere and the table underlights. The fact that its in a tent is absurd - and probably bad for the game as pit players are less likely to stumble into the room. The action was incredible though, there were no other grinders at my table. Granted it was a Saturday, but I'd love to go back.
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Old 08-25-2015, 12:12 PM   #16
cAmmAndo
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Re: 2/5 SugarHouse JJ Line-check

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I called and the guy rolled over 88.



SugarHouse was pretty interesting. I like the dark atmosphere and the table underlights. The fact that its in a tent is absurd - and probably bad for the game as pit players are less likely to stumble into the room. The action was incredible though, there were no other grinders at my table. Granted it was a Saturday, but I'd love to go back.

It's a temporary structure. The permanent room is part of their expansion.
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