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Old 10-18-2016, 12:03 PM   #1
Ranma4703
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[2/5] Straight draw on flush draw board multiway #1

V1 limps UTG - he's limping pretty wide here with lots of suited trash, but also plenty of premiums like AJ, 99 type hands.

I overlimp UTG+2 with 98 - I fold sometimes, open sometimes, overlimp sometimes here. Young looking rec reg, V2 has seen me open light / bluff a lot but also value bet thin.

V2 raises in the co to $25 - he's a young regular, probably opening ~14-16% here, got some aggression to him but doesn't get way out of line

We are all 1k effective

V1 calls, I overcall - could fold especially out of position but with V1 in the pot + deep stacks I think my implied odds are good.

Flop: 37T ($75)
Check to V2, he bets $50, V1 calls, I overcall

Leading this flop is a decent idea, since V2 can't call too light with V1 behind, but in general I expect V1 to continue a lot, so I also expect V2 to check back this flop a decent amount of the time, and I don't mind taking a free card here.

Raising the flop is possible, but with the above V2 has a decently strong range here, and V1 is going to be calling loose.

I'm calling $50 to win $175, so I'm ~$30 short of my direct odds, so I need to win ~30*4 or 5, so ~120-200, which with $225 and 2 streets should be possible

Turn: 6 ($225)
V1 checks, I check, V2 checks

****. Should I bet here? V2 would probably bet a lot of hands with how drawy the board is, and because we expect him to check back the flop with a decent amount of air, we should expect him to have a made hand here pretty often and bet. Then we trap V1 for another bet and can get stacks in.

River: A ($225)
V1 checks, I bet $225, V2 calls, V1 folds

The A is a great card for us, improving V2's likely remaining air to top pair, looking like a scare card + flush draw missing gives us plenty of bluffs, and with a large sizing we look less like the nut flush draw that made a TP and going for thin value. Also chance it made V1 aces up or TP with his own flush draw.
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Old 10-18-2016, 02:29 PM   #2
Amanaplan
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Re: [2/5] Straight draw on flush draw board multiway #1

Once overcalling flop, I see no alternative in this game other than leading turn for 2/3 pot.
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Old 10-18-2016, 04:24 PM   #3
Javanewt
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Re: [2/5] Straight draw on flush draw board multiway #1

If I limp/call pre and call the flop, I always bet this turn. Always. Half pot or a little more. Glad you got paid on the river, at least.
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Old 10-18-2016, 04:25 PM   #4
Soner
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Re: [2/5] Straight draw on flush draw board multiway #1

I am just curious, what hand range do you assign to V2 to have on the flop that a 6c improves his decent amount of air on flop pretty often? I can't really think of many hands based on the action. (He raised pre and opens only ~15%)

If you think he has improved there pretty often why not bet 2/3 of the pot? You are risking giving them a free card on the possibility of V2 betting and V1 calling? It really doesn't add up but I may be wrong.
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Old 10-18-2016, 05:24 PM   #5
Railbird_1211
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Re: [2/5] Straight draw on flush draw board multiway #1

My jaw dropped when I read that you checked that turn card. Was your plan to x/r or c/c? I don't get the reasoning on V2. If he has air, he's probably not continuing against two villains with a turn card that hit a straight draw and added no equity to his perceived range. If he has a made hand, you're easily getting him to call (or raise) your turn bet. I think check has to be the worst option unless you're convinced he has an overpair here based on some read and are looking to get stacks in on the river.
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Old 10-19-2016, 02:56 AM   #6
Dream Crusher
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Re: [2/5] Straight draw on flush draw board multiway #1

Wouldn't like a lead on this flop and raising the flop would be TERRIBLE.

I'm curious about your decision to limp preflop. Is there some sort of logic that makes you limp here sometimes and raise other times? In general, I am not a fan of this limp.
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Old 10-19-2016, 11:31 AM   #7
pologuy64
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Re: [2/5] Straight draw on flush draw board multiway #1

I think you def. need to be betting the turn. The board is full of draws and your goal is to get money in the pot at this point....

bet turn, bet river, easy hand...
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Old 10-19-2016, 12:22 PM   #8
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Re: [2/5] Straight draw on flush draw board multiway #1

V2 will likely continue with the top of his range on a relatively safe turn, but check back the lower end, such as over cards. He may even pot control with a hand like JJ.

I’d lead turn for ~60% pot. If he folds, unlikely we would have extracted anything more otr. Top end will call, may even raise.

As played, I would have checked river with intention of CR. Ace hits his line hard, while our line is deceptive enough to get a call enough of the time, i.e. looks like missed FD attempting a steal vs. a capped range. Obviously dependent on how much of a thinker he is.
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Old 10-19-2016, 01:08 PM   #9
iraisetoomuch
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Re: [2/5] Straight draw on flush draw board multiway #1

Turn card is 100% a lead.
You'll get called by an OP 100% of the time.
You can also get fat value from top pair turned straight draw, flush draws, and all sorts of other things.

Sizing on the river is great as played. If we donked the turn for like $125, I might lead river for only just a bit bigger, like $250-$300.

Also getting 'just what we need' is ok sometimes, but when we can collect extra money on the turn here and then again in the river it goes a lot father to make up for the money that we lose when we hit a 6 and pay off for $100 which significantly hurts out IO in this case.
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Old 10-19-2016, 01:09 PM   #10
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Re: [2/5] Straight draw on flush draw board multiway #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by samo View Post
V2 will likely continue with the top of his range on a relatively safe turn, but check back the lower end, such as over cards. He may even pot control with a hand like JJ.
Completely disagree on this board with this turn card.
I think he checks behind almost 100% of his range when 2 people called him on the flop.
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Old 10-19-2016, 01:25 PM   #11
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Re: [2/5] Straight draw on flush draw board multiway #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch View Post
Completely disagree on this board with this turn card.
I think he checks behind almost 100% of his range when 2 people called him on the flop.
There are only 4 combos of 98s that got there; 12 of 98o, but I'd argue those mostly fold pre. The 2-pr combos are limited - 76 probably folding flop. Imo sets are CR flop most of the time.

On a double suited board, QQ+ may be missing value by not B/F turn.

Last edited by samo; 10-19-2016 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 10-19-2016, 03:21 PM   #12
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Re: [2/5] Straight draw on flush draw board multiway #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by samo View Post
There are only 4 combos of 98s that got there; 12 of 98o, but I'd argue those mostly fold pre. The 2-pr combos are limited - 76 probably folding flop. Imo sets are CR flop most of the time.
All the more reason for hero to bet turn.
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Old 10-19-2016, 06:41 PM   #13
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Re: [2/5] Straight draw on flush draw board multiway #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by samo View Post
There are only 4 combos of 98s that got there; 12 of 98o, but I'd argue those mostly fold pre. The 2-pr combos are limited - 76 probably folding flop. Imo sets are CR flop most of the time.

On a double suited board, QQ+ may be missing value by not B/F turn.
I don't care what actually got there.

I care that most people holding and over pair, and seeing two people call, and seeing a card that is just never good for their OP and can only help their mubs stick it's head up and say "STOP BETTING YOU'RE BEAT, but I don't really know why" peeled off, and so they will stop betting.
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