Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-21-2018, 12:31 AM   #1
VQ37
centurion
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 155
2/5 Straddled Pot Should I go for ultra thin value here?

Just sat down, Hero viewed as winning reg that plays TAG.

Hero (UTG+1) is asian male in his 20s sitting on ~700 stack.

Villain (MP) Middle aged white male, looks competent, unknown, covers Hero.

Straddle, UTG blind calls, Hero is UTG + 1 with KK

Hero raises to $45, MP calls, Straddle calls, UTG limper calls.

Flop ($187) 773

Straddle checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $100, MP flats

Turn ($387) J Hero bets $150, MP Calls

River ($687) J Hero has $405 left.

Hero?

My thoughts: V should never have a 7x or Jx. So V has 1 combo JJ, 1 combo 77, 3 combos of 33, 6 combos 88, 6 combos 99, 6 combos 1010, 6 combos QQ (maybe?), 1 combo of KK (maybe?), 6 combos of trapped Aces (maybe?).

What are your thoughts on this river?

Also, what are your thoughts on my sizing on all streets? Thanks in advance!
VQ37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 04:46 AM   #2
winadil
adept
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seoul
Posts: 808
Re: 2/5 Straddled Pot Should I go for ultra thin value here?

Never have a 7 or a J? I never say never
What are you expecting to call 3 streets down with that you beat?
TT,99,88 would call the flop but more likely to fold to your decent size turn bet
QQ, would call flop & turn bet maybe call a river bet
AA,33,7x would be calling all day long and has you crushed
I cant really see villian peeling the flop with Jx but if he thinks you are FOS then maybe he peels light but who knows as villian is an unknown.
Given the action I would be checking back the river a lot of the time this hand is getting 2 streets of value.
Your reads are unknown and as such villian has no reads on you and given that you keep betting if he does have you crushes he shouldnt raise you as you keep piling in the money
I really do like the bet sizing as it sets up for a nice shove on river but given the board run out am checking and seeing what villian does. If he shoves it really going to put you too the test as board is dry for draws

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
winadil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 09:12 AM   #3
samo
Pooh-Bah
 
samo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 4,020
Re: 2/5 Straddled Pot Should I go for ultra thin value here?

I think you can include some AJs/QJs combos in his flop calling range, hoping to pickup equity on turn. I'd also size down on flop and turn, 1/3 PSBish.

As played, I'd lean toward checking river. If indeed competent, he's likely folding worse, betting a boat.
samo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 10:43 AM   #4
StinkHolePatrol
journeyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 258
Re: 2/5 Straddled Pot Should I go for ultra thin value here?

I'm jaming

Expecting to get looked up by 88-tt alot and maybe A high.

If he has 33 a 7 or a jack are you really going to check fold for 2/3 pot? The answer is no, we are almost never folding this river as played. If turn checked through and river was jamed, you could find a fold but the math says you can't fold now, especially against an unknown. Against a nit yes.

There are no missed draws he could possibly bluff with so he is almost always checking back all his showdown hands except 33, a 7 or a jack.


We are still losing the maximum when beat, we need to attempt to get the maximum when we are ahead here.


I would of checked the turn to avoid this spot but now you're here and you must jam since you always lose the maximum when beat here.
StinkHolePatrol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 10:50 AM   #5
Javanewt
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: a farm in the country
Posts: 10,492
Re: 2/5 Straddled Pot Should I go for ultra thin value here?

I check here. MP could easily have a 7, although I agree he shouldn't have a J.

I check river because I doubt you are getting called by worse. If he jams river, you have a tough decision vs. an unknown. I'd try to get a live read and go with it.
Javanewt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 02:47 PM   #6
aross76
journeyman
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 323
Re: 2/5 Straddled Pot Should I go for ultra thin value here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VQ37 View Post
Just sat down, Hero viewed as winning reg that plays TAG.

Hero (UTG+1) is asian male in his 20s sitting on ~700 stack.

Villain (MP) Middle aged white male, looks competent, unknown, covers Hero.

Straddle, UTG blind calls, Hero is UTG + 1 with KK

Hero raises to $45, MP calls, Straddle calls, UTG limper calls.

Flop ($187) 773

Straddle checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $100, MP flats

Turn ($387) J Hero bets $150, MP Calls

River ($687) J Hero has $405 left.

Hero?

My thoughts: V should never have a 7x or Jx. So V has 1 combo JJ, 1 combo 77, 3 combos of 33, 6 combos 88, 6 combos 99, 6 combos 1010, 6 combos QQ (maybe?), 1 combo of KK (maybe?), 6 combos of trapped Aces (maybe?).

What are your thoughts on this river?

Also, what are your thoughts on my sizing on all streets? Thanks in advance!
Your assessment of his range is accurate and that if you jam river you only get called by better. That said, IMO if you make it like a weak river bluff stab just mindlessly hoping for a fold but doesn't cost all your chips, say a bet like ~210 he very well might look you up with some of the weaker portions of his range which you beat that would fold to an all in
On the of chance he shoves you could prob fold and save the extra 200 because even a 7 would be worried about the runout.
aross76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 10:45 PM   #7
VQ37
centurion
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 155
Re: 2/5 Straddled Pot Should I go for ultra thin value here?

The reason why I think he should never have a 7 is because I opened UTG+1 in a straddled pot, so we effectively have 70 blinds. He was the first person to enter the pot, therefore he should not really be playing any 7x hands. If he was button after a few calls, I can get behind him having 7x here.

There were 2 people behind him to act, so I didn't think he would peel light on the flop (like AJs/QJs/KJs), especially in a 4 way pot with 2 people to act behind him after I cbet a 773r flop. I almost never am bluffing on this flop 4 ways when I cbet.

Also, my hand also looks like Jx here a lot, where he can't have Jx ever unless he has the 1 combo of JJ. Another question is, can we bluff 33 if he has that by jamming river?
VQ37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 11:46 PM   #8
winadil
adept
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seoul
Posts: 808
Re: 2/5 Straddled Pot Should I go for ultra thin value here?

A7s and 87s/76s are hands that come to mind.
While we could debate forever about what he should or would call with pre he is an unknown and at 2/5 people call with some pretty ****y hands at time so saying never isn't true at all.
So I stand by my orignal post that I think you are only really going to get 2 streets of value here.
As for bluffing 33 from calling a jam I dont know probably not given people cant lay downs boats at the best of times at is only a 2/3 PSB left can see villain sigh calling a lot

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
winadil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2018, 01:28 AM   #9
PFunkaliscious
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,064
Re: 2/5 Straddled Pot Should I go for ultra thin value here?

V has some PP 44 - AA. since we are beating most of his range and he has not shown any strength, I am betting 200 OTT. but I understand the desire to check it back.
PFunkaliscious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2018, 05:45 PM   #10
VQ37
centurion
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 155
Re: 2/5 Straddled Pot Should I go for ultra thin value here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PFunkaliscious View Post
V has some PP 44 - AA. since we are beating most of his range and he has not shown any strength, I am betting 200 OTT. but I understand the desire to check it back.
You mean on the river, not turn?

And I'm out of position, not in position
VQ37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2018, 12:19 PM   #11
Javanewt
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: a farm in the country
Posts: 10,492
Re: 2/5 Straddled Pot Should I go for ultra thin value here?

It's interesting that you are ranging and unknown and assuming he won't have a 7. I know a ton of players who could have a 7 here. Maybe it's because he "looks competent," which I get. However, if you think he's too good to have a 7 here, why would he be bad enough to call a shove with worse than KK when you raised UTG+1 and have bet the flop and turn?

If he doesn't have a 7 (and only JJ for a J, which would suck), check/call. That's the only way you should get any money from a worse hand. I'm never bet/folding in this spot.

BTW, I highly doubt he folds 33.
Javanewt is online now   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive