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Old 02-25-2021, 04:26 PM   #1
Balerion1
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2-5 Straddled Pot | Bottom 2 | Flop Action

8 handed game which has been playing relatively snug.

V1 (covers H) has a high vpip pre, his pfr are mostly the premium side of his value range. H knows of V1 but have not logged many hours together. I especially don't recall any hands with his flop line.

V2 (1k) is pretty straight forward, auto c-betting and was using non-optimal sizing when he does bet (example: cbetting 1/4 3-4 ways and not as a range/down bet but because he doesn't know how to size his bets correctly).

H (900) v1 knows H but tbh, don't know what he thinks of H game. If I had to guess, I think he might view H as being more out of line than I am and might make lighter calls vs H than most other players on the table. Again, this is an assumption.


The table agreed to do a round of straddle. H straddles v2 opens to 25 +1, v1 flats from co, h calls T9

F(80): K9T
H x, planning to xr, v2 50, v1 takes about 10-12 seconds and makes it 150. H?

Questions
1. Do we *need* to lead or x/r plan is fine because we expect pfr to cbet this board at a high frequency?
2. Now that v1 has raised, if we flat, how do we proceed on a non turn or a card below an 8?
3. Is a fold too nitty?
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Old 02-25-2021, 05:51 PM   #2
sixsevenoff
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Re: 2-5 Straddled Pot | Bottom 2 | Flop Action

So he raised 2.5x pre? I would just fold. We're hoping villain has T X which has excellent equity if villain's other card is A/Q/J, or the same hand which only has four remaining combos.
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Old 02-25-2021, 08:39 PM   #3
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Re: 2-5 Straddled Pot | Bottom 2 | Flop Action

Uhg so gross. Honestly I prob 3bet pre vs that weak ass raise, looks like he either didnt notice you straddled or isnt comfortable in straddled pots. Regardless I think I gotta peel one just to see if anything blows up but probably ditching to further action unless one of them baits me hard with a $100 turn bet or something.
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Old 02-25-2021, 09:42 PM   #4
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Re: 2-5 Straddled Pot | Bottom 2 | Flop Action

in game i would probably call. i can see folding though. villian 2 can still re raise flop at which point we kind of havr to fold, especially if villian 1 calls villians 2 reraise.

also if villian 1 does have a semi bluff and decides to run it are we calling him down? like lets say we all call flop turn is 3 it checks to villian 1 he rips it. are we calling? probably not.
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Old 02-25-2021, 09:53 PM   #5
Playbig2000
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Re: 2-5 Straddled Pot | Bottom 2 | Flop Action

I rather flat here pre than 3bet pre as previously suggested. I might 3bet with KQo, etc. not 9Ts.

Bottom two suck in these spots with this particular type of player. He's prob not doing this with hands we beat, or with any draws according to his description. It's usually KT, K9, or 99/TT.

1. c/r plan is fine, we don't need to lead here.
2. if we flat, the pot is like 450+ ott and we have 325 behind... it's too late to think about bailing out now.
3. big folds are never too nitty. it's a big important part of your game. I've folded AK pre to big 3bets from tight players I don't consider it nitty I consider it smart.
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Old 02-26-2021, 09:42 AM   #6
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Re: 2-5 Straddled Pot | Bottom 2 | Flop Action

I'd make a frustrating fold given the opponent descripts.

Given the auto c-bet freq, I like the X/R plan.
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Old 02-26-2021, 02:35 PM   #7
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Re: 2-5 Straddled Pot | Bottom 2 | Flop Action

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsevenoff View Post
So he raised 2.5x pre? I would just fold. We're hoping villain has T X which has excellent equity if villain's other card is A/Q/J, or the same hand which only has four remaining combos.
I can’t fold this pre for another $15 closing the action 67!



Quote:
Originally Posted by javi View Post
Uhg so gross. Honestly I prob 3bet pre vs that weak ass raise, looks like he either didnt notice you straddled or isnt comfortable in straddled pots. Regardless I think I gotta peel one just to see if anything blows up but probably ditching to further action unless one of them baits me hard with a $100 turn bet or something.
He noticed the straddle. His standard opening raises has been $15. I don’t love this spot for a 3b unless I make like around $150. I think a “standard” 3b gets called and we’re going 3 way to the flop. V2 is another limit player (different one from a previous post I made), and thus far I have not noticed a fold button. On the table read/adjustment was to have a hand and bet vs V2 and not get out of line.


Quote:
Originally Posted by josofo View Post
in game i would probably call. i can see folding though. villian 2 can still re raise flop at which point we kind of havr to fold, especially if villian 1 calls villians 2 reraise.

also if villian 1 does have a semi bluff and decides to run it are we calling him down? like lets say we all call flop turn is 3 it checks to villian 1 he rips it. are we calling? probably not.
Your last question was one of my first questions on the table. I’m not sure if I should x/c turn on a blank but SPR was going to be around 1.5 I think so it’s hard to fold 2p for that SPR on a blank.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000 View Post
I rather flat here pre than 3bet pre as previously suggested. I might 3bet with KQo, etc. not 9Ts.

Bottom two suck in these spots with this particular type of player. He's prob not doing this with hands we beat, or with any draws according to his description. It's usually KT, K9, or 99/TT.

1. c/r plan is fine, we don't need to lead here.
2. if we flat, the pot is like 450+ ott and we have 325 behind... it's too late to think about bailing out now.
3. big folds are never too nitty. it's a big important part of your game. I've folded AK pre to big 3bets from tight players I don't consider it nitty I consider it smart.
Well said, and you didn’t even include QJ in the range you constructed for villain which should make this a muck, no?


Quote:
Originally Posted by samo View Post
I'd make a frustrating fold given the opponent descripts.

Given the auto c-bet freq, I like the X/R plan.
Right on.

Last edited by Balerion1; 02-26-2021 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 02-26-2021, 02:41 PM   #8
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Re: 2-5 Straddled Pot | Bottom 2 | Flop Action

AP, I was truly stuck in this spot. My plan was to x/r, but when the hand got out of "flow" I think it froze up my thinking process a little bit. ended up calling, v2 folds, and x/f turn.

I agree with you guys that this can be a fold on the flop. I think villain has way more combos of QJ (he calls all 16 combos from the co) than he has AdXd, or KxQd, or 87dd etc. I think the vast majority of his draws he's going to flat call instead of raising. Folding flop just seems so nitty, but calling seems like burning money too given I know I'll be facing an all in or a near psb on the turn. Furthermore, as someone above mentioned, v2 still has the option to 3b which further complicates things unless his b/3b range is weighted all AA/AK than KK/QJ/99/TT.

Thanks for the feedback.
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Old 02-26-2021, 03:24 PM   #9
sixsevenoff
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Re: 2-5 Straddled Pot | Bottom 2 | Flop Action

My paragraph was structured in a way in which I can see your confusion, but I'm saying I would just fold flop, not pre. I'd fold pre if it was a 5x open, not 2.5x.
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