5/5 late night game at 2am
7 handed.

UTG is good solid reg. He opens to 20. (1K)

UTG+1 is a tight passive fish. He calls. (300)

HJ is a bad LAG spew fish verging on whale. He calls. (800)

Hero is CO with a solid TAG image. We have AAdh and 3bet squeeze to 100. (650)



BB is solid. Been grinding with this lady all night. She’s a very tight TAG, picking her spots. Then putting pressure on. She seems like she’s very high intensity and a try hard, but probably not that fundamentally sound. She tanks and cold calls the 100?? (700)

UTG calls.

UTG+1 calls.

HJ folds.

4 ways
(425) flop QT5ccs
X x x hero bets 105. BB quickly check raises all in for 600. Folds back to us. Hero?

550 for us to call here getting about 2:1

Could she ever have KK this way and not 4bet pre?? Is this always QQ? AKcc? Are we ever folding here?

Yeah I could see her playing kings like that I guess. With the pot already 400 I think you have to pay her off. Also in these multi-way three bet pots I would size up to the size of the pot and bet like 250. Betting bigger also discourage s people making moves on us because we have no fold equity.

If she's "very tight", I would fold.

I don't understand what "picking her spots" means. Does she bluff?

Has she seen you 3bet before?

Have you seen her call a 3bet before?

From what I can see so far it's a snap fold without thinking twice.

And why would this be kings, after you just 3bet, doesn't she think aces are well within your range?

I also don't like the 1/4 pot sizing but if you folded, it may have helped you.

So why did you bet a 1/4 pot?

1. If it was to induce some calls or raises, mission accomplished. Easy call.
2. If it was to see if your AA is good, mission accomplished. Easy fold.

Can't help you much if the reason was you were clicking buttons.

Not folding at this spr except vs very specific villains ie OMC or tight passive that never gii without nuts

Are “inducing” and “seeing if your hand is good” your standard reasons for considering betting?

What about, say, “getting called by worse” or “folding better”?

With a SPR less than 2, these aren't considerations. What kind of range do you think will call $105 but fold to $210?

I mean, seriously guys, this gets out of hand. Just lol at ever folding.

would 3bet bigger, and bet flop bigger, but whatever, it´s just a call now. QQ is not a range.

What better hand is folding here? Sets are never folding, and the most likely other hand (Q10suited) isn't either...

Also, AQ is possibly in range too (KJ, J9 too)...I've played with plenty of people who would C/R all-in with those hands.

If you give her a call pre/cr ai on flop range of:

TT, QQ, KK,, AKcc (plus AA which is unlikely)

Then you are buried 1/2 the time, crushing 1/4 of the time and flipping 1/4 of the time.

If you can range her even a tiny bit wider -- basically semibluffing with AK with ace of clubs, or getting out of line with JJ or whatever -- then it's a call.

I agree they're not -- I'm just saying that "to get called by worse" and "to get better to fold" are almost always the only good reasons to bet. (Generally-bad reasons to bet include "to find out where I'm at", "to protect my hand", "to induce")

i would go larger pre , and larger on the flop , when UTG and UTG +1 put money in their ranges are pretty strong so i want to get as much money in there as possible so i'm going at least 120

AP i think you have to call especially with a small bluff inducing sizing otf, if you have a read locked in on the V bc you've played with her for hours and you want to make an exploitative fold then i don't hate it but that's for you to determine

Villain was said to be "very tight".

I have too, but If those hands are in her range, her description of being very tight is way off.

Pay her off. Too many unknowns.

I think 105 gets more calls but 250-300 we put them in a worst spot. Because if he has qj or kq sure he will call 105. And he is not making a huge mistake because he gets to see one more card and he gets to see what we do on the turn. If we make it 250+ it’s pretty dicey for him already.

If we are betting 250 we might as well jam 550, which is what I would do

Question to the people who think shipping/betting bigger OTF is better.

How do you think bet sizing is determined in poker?

Heads up sure do our tricky quarter pot bet. Multiway I think it makes more sense to turn the heat up on these guys.

The size of the pot is already way out of hand. Make it awkward for there solid made hands.


Bet size usually doesn’t effect ev that much anyway, except when it does.

You decrease sizing/frequency in multiway pots - not the opposite.

Also bet sizing doesn't affect EV much only IF you play your range correctly.

I actually call sizing into question in the live sense. For the most part, people are playing way too many hands. And continuing in multi-way situations too inelastically. “Tighten up, size up” seems to be a good strategy in that sense.


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I don't think people realize they are exploiting by using this strategy though, they think the exploit is the default and not the deviation.

So then you just exploit by accident.

And then the problem with all these exploits that work vs wide ranges is that if you ever run into someone that plays better ranges you won't really know how to adjust.

SPOILER:

I called and she had JJ

She wasn't a very tight tag. Very tight players don't make those kinds of moves. Hopefully she didn't hit a jack on the turn or river or a back door straight.

That was my read at the time but yeah ur right lol I guess she just played tight all night and then just spazzed out for no reason.

Maybe she put me on AK?

all these labels like TAG, LAG, MAWG, OAWW, OMC are pretty confusing and don´t lead to the right decisions often. If you really have expensive history, sure, make exploits, but here you played a few hours with her which is probably about 60 hands.

folding in this spot is just so lol.