2/5. 8 handed.
UTG+1 reg (700) limps.
UTG+2 reg (1K) limps.
LJ loose fish (600) limps.
Hero CO (500) with AQo raise to 35. BUT tilting fish (105) shoves 105.
Fold. fold.
LJ calls.
Hero?

I think there’s a good chance were flipping/ahead of the BUT range. However the LJ cold calling 105 after limping is a bit concerning. He might have JJ or TT or maybe a slowplayed AK or AA.
But the fact that there are so many dead chips here makes me want to just shove to isolate the tilting fish.




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Also, I was sitting next to the LJ, and for the last 10 minutes he kept talking about how expected the tilter to shove at any moment now.


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With $255 already in there, I think shoving is best. I mean if we call, we are going to have $395 left and the pot will be $325 so it is going to be hard to fold post.

You have 100 bb and a fairly good hand against a limp/caller -- just shove now and use any fold equity you have or have him call w/ TT/JJ and bink. I can't imagine he'd not shove himself w/ AA/KK, but some players are bad.

Awwwwwwww innnnnnnnnnn.

Against a fish, I think calling is fine to keep him in the pot with worse hands (KQs, JQs, AJs,etc) although you would like to be deeper to really capitalize on his mistakes.

Plus, I don't know how much fold equity you have against this player type who has already shown he really wants to see a flop.

These statement contradict each other (or something like that). If he can have worse hands and we don't have any fold equity, we want to shove and have him not fold. That's ideal!

If you are convinced that LJ was waiting for a shove and would have limped with QQ+ along with weaker hands then you could find a fold. Otherwise shove to put his middle pairs in a bad situation and force out any weaker garbage, if you are lucky he might even fold AK.

Why would we want him to fold worse hands? We want him to call with dominated hands and get stacked. If we shove, this type of player likely calls with pp's that we are behind and folds the hands we are crushing.

??? I'm saying we want him to call with worse. Your statement seemed to say that he most likely has worse, but we have no fold equity (as if that were a bad thing).

Regardless, flatting is not really an option because we are committed on almost any flop. Why let him fold on the flop or have him shove and put us to a test?

jam all day vs loose fish

exactly don't wait for him to see a flop he doesn't like w a dominated hand, and then be forced to give him more free cards.

doesn't matter. even if he has 3 outs it's not that bad for us to get them folded out bc of the size of the main pot. our options are to give him 3 cards for his current price, or to try and improve our own situation in a pot that's currently 3 ways. If he has pp's only we chop the all-in side pot when he calls, which means when we jam we essentially freeroll a fold in the main.

we have a tilting jammer here. much more likely we dominate him, our primary concern is securing as much equity as possible in the main ($300) getting the second guys money could be an unexpected bonus, but we don't realy need to worry about being dominated, and shouldn't count on hitting a flop that he will pay us on (2 outs) if we do have him dominated atm

wors5 case scenario, flat caller has AJ, flops a J, jams and we have to fold our equity. He has 3 outs to do that, while we only have 2 to flop an A and stack him. As mentioned above, if flop blanks this same scenario likely plays out again and again over the turn and river compounding the error

I argue with my buddies on these "pot-protected" hands. I just call in this spot, hoping to flop well--or see the turn and river. My buddies say jam in order to isolate the tilting fish.

But if the tilting fish is all-in, we have lost most of the fold equity of a jam. So a jam or raise, is a lot less desirable. And LJ can call our jam with a much better hand.

Am I missing something?

+1

Is LJ really limp calling AJ and worse here?

If you jam it’s a bluff unless there’s a weird dynamic

Flatting is better. Hard to make a mistake against your opponent's range postflop ip in a dry pot with AQ and this stack depth. You're either gonna hit TPGK and go with it or miss and check/fold.

To justify raising, you really need to be ahead or your opponent's calling range, which is very optimistic without a good read.

I jam.

I mostly agree with first part, especially if LJ will play passively and check the flop a lot and let us see flop and turn for free. By turn/river we ought to know if our hand is any good.

On second part, after V has already put in $100, if we can get him to fold equity (88-JJ, AQ, AJ) then that would be a great result. So I don't know if we need to be ahead of his range strictly speaking.

I would flat here closing the action though expecting LJ to check the flop a fair amount. If he is the type to slowplay a big hand he will check flop a bunch and will not bluff into $0 sidepot.

Why not? He’s a fish.

Jam just because he’s unlikely to have any of the hands we’re worried about and we have fold equity.

Fish have limits
I can’t begin to state how important defining those limits accurately for each fish at a 2/5 table is.
Fish that limp-call 95% to 35 pre are common
Fish that limp-call 95% pre to a 35-105 sequence pre are super rare and I’ll pm my mobile so you can call me and I’ll fly there

Just jam. As long as LJ doesn't have QQ+ or AK it's +EV. High variance, sure, but always +EV.

You're really most worried about him showing up with AK here and at least you block 4 combos of it.

If he calls 77-JJ it's still +EV to jam here with the BTN's tilt range as you'd be flipping with BTN's money on top.

@mdelore: You don't want him to fold his equity with AJ. The 15%-20% you both hit the Ace, you win an extra $400, plus make some money on QJxxx boards. The value of getting HU with the tilter is overstated. You will still lose the pot most of the time when you do not improve, and when you do improve, you will win a lot less.

Maybe people don't agree on the cold caller's range. I'm working from a range of 66-JJ, AT, AJ, KQ, a few combos of weaker suited Aces, KJs, sometimes lol JTs, and a few combos of traps/tard-played QQ+/AK. People who don't believe someone who THIRD LIMPED and then cold called 20bb can have AJo aren't playing the same game as me. Of all possible hands, imo AJ is the MOST likely.

Remember, everyone, LJ is not the tilting fish. We know basically nothing about him.

For those of you who flat, what if you miss the flop and LJ bets? Are you just giving up? If LJ checks, are you willing to put a bet in as a bluff or are you just going to check it down unless you hit -- or even if you hit?

With $315 in the pot and less than $400 behind you can really be put to the test if LJ happens to be a thinking player.

(1) He's not a thinking player because he third overlimped and then cold called 20bb with the action still open. Literally ONLY bad players take that line.

(2) If he has any idea at all how to play, he will know that there is little point in bluffing into a dry sidepot. We will basically never be in a tough spot postflop.