I think it's a good assumption to assume that no one decent would flat flop with 85dd.

I can't think of any positive to flat flop with that hand, can you?

Haven't read past this yet but so far this aligns with my thoughts. Also a good LAG should aslo be thin value betting worse sets if they are still in his range.

I totally agree villain should be raising a combo draw on this flop 100 % of the time. Surprised anyone is arguing against that.

Well you're still semi bluffing if you're raising the flop, like do you really want to get it all in this spot on the flop? It's a cash game, you're not try to accumulate all the chips..basically if you're putting him on a huge hand like AA or a set then you raise and get reraised and have to call of all your chips (or fold)..if you read him for AJ or KK or QQ and feel he can find a fold then yeah raise..the mistake by villain is the turn, not the flop..again, in a cash game, i dont know why you'd want to just stick it all in on the flop

It's a couple of simple math questions.

We assign hero's 4bb pre-flop raising range in CO to x range, and without more information, we can assume that hero's c-bet range to be fairly similar to that same x range.

We calculate villain's equity against hero's range and it would be very obvious that we do not need much FE with our standard raise to be +EV.

If hero 3-bets flop, we reduce x range down to y range and we can calculate equity vs the new y range and determine whether it's +EV to proceed.

Do I think 3-bet is going to happen often in this spot? Hell no, if you do, you should try to identify the root of your MUBS.

I'd say this is a good fold. He's unlikely to bet river so large with sets and it's kinda hard for him to have a bluff. WP, other than folding face up.

Floating combo draws on an A high flop isn't awful
People don't fire multiple barrels at them too often so he can just scoop the pot on the turn most of the time IP cheaper than raising
Plus with his image he probably doesn't expect to fold out Ax that cheaply

I skimmed the thread just to get a sense of what's going through the minds.

I think OP made a huge mistake on the turn by not overbetting the pot. $200 is the right number, IMO. Had you overbet the pot on the turn, the river would have been a trivial decision.

The K is sort of a wash. In one sense, it hits our range and doesn't hit Villain's. In another, it is a pretty good scare card for both players.

As played, x/s river.

Anyway, there is no way I'm ever folding a set of aces for 118bb.

Also, open bigger from late position regardless of cards. $35+ here.

I would bet 150-180 on the smaller side. Not the greatest card but I still think you are good here A LOT. I wouldn't want to check river and have 2 pair or a weaker set check behind.

You guys are aware he revealed the rest of the hand and villain had the flush right?

Whaaa? You're 7xing in the cutoff with AA when it's been folded around?

+1, exactly what I said. I don't think Richard Parker was reading too deeply though. Maybe using the word "float" is inaccurate, but we have 8-high and we don't need to raise to beat the cbettor's non-Ax hands.

There's a clear distinction between having a 12-out draw on an Ace-high board, vs, say, the same draw on a T-high board. The cbettor's range is very sharply divided on A-high boards (either he has Ax or he doesn't essentially, because the only other strong hands are unlikely two pairs or sets), and raising accomplishes nothing good that flatting flop/betting turn wouldn't also accomplish against the same (read, whiffed) part of his range (but it would do strictly worse against the good parts of his range).

In that sense, we "float" with the 12-out draw to enhance (I hesitate to say "balance") the rest of our floating range. Because in all honesty, against a guy with a very high cbet (and hopefully a low rate of double-barreling), I'm floating the world...

Please write with less fillers.

Anyhow, it seems like you don't want to raise flop because you don't think we have fold equity against Ax?

I just got to your last paragraph...

Did I read it right, balancing float range?

Villain is not really a LAG if he flopped a fd/gs and played it so passively.

Why did you fold face up?

Because I was pretty certain that the villain respects me enough that by folding face up it would cause him to show me his cards.. And at the time I wanted to know.

In hindsight, I have mixed feelings on the play.

A. Theoretically, I should have to call off lighter in the future. But in all honesty, I'm probably giving opponents too much credit in making this assumption.

B. It may not be a bad thing to tighten my image a bit. I made a bad call with QQ vs. AA a couple weeks ago then sucked out when I spiked a Q on the turn and trust me, plenty of people heard about it.

If I could go back in time I would fold face down. It was a bad play and seeing his cards was insignificant, I already knew he made the flush.

Check folding this river is insane. Good lord.

RP when you raise flop with 85dd (standard) and get tank flatted what do you do on brick turns? I always have trouble in spots where I'm repping huge strength + do actually have 12+ outs but I'm unsure of my fe or if it even exists.