Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-24-2016, 03:37 AM   #1
Bluffage
centurion
 
Bluffage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 137
2/5 set of 66

2/5 nl Isle casino S florida sat night

V ($590) - Room 2/5 regular. We have played together a few times for a total of about 15 hrs so we are fairly familiar with each others play. He has been playing fairly tight tonight, and has only opened a couple times in about 3 hours, and has limped several times. We haven't seen a showdown with him as of yet. He is capable of being trappy in spots and can get creative occasionally .

Hero ($700) - playing a very Tag style. Occasionally limps but coming in for a raise most times I enter a pot. Only times I have been to showdown tonight I have had the winner, and shown down strong hands. Last couple orbits have loosened up a lot jk around and laughing with my friend who pulled up a seat at my table.

On to the hand

V opens Co to $20, button calls, sb calls, and hero calls from bb with 66
Flop AJ6:
Checks around. This check indicates V either absolutely loved or hated[ this flop. V is cbetting all Ax hands here on a drawy board into multiple opponents, but will likely check 99+, and sets of aces and jacks.

Turn Q
Sb checks, hero leads $45, V now raises to 145, others fold. Hero calls.
I proceed with caution here. I'm skeptical due to V's style that I'm crushed. Now K10 seems like a possibility, though less likely due to his open pre, and I'm fairly certain AQ and AJ get bet on the drawy flop. Worried I'm behind his entire range here. QQ, JJ, and AA all make sense as played. In hindsight this may have been a fold, but called on off chance it is k10 or that he played AQ or AJ funky, even AK. There's also some smaller semi bluffs in his range such as KQ and KJ, and also QJ made 2 pair

River 8

Hero checks, V deliberates for about 20 seconds and shoves for about $420 total. I caught a subtle tell as he made the all in move as well. Hero??
Bluffage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2016, 09:47 AM   #2
Beanfacekilla
centurion
 
Beanfacekilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Metro-Detroit Area
Posts: 127
Re: 2/5 set of 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluffage View Post
2/5 nl Isle casino S florida sat night

V ($590) - Room 2/5 regular. We have played together a few times for a total of about 15 hrs so we are fairly familiar with each others play. He has been playing fairly tight tonight, and has only opened a couple times in about 3 hours, and has limped several times. We haven't seen a showdown with him as of yet. He is capable of being trappy in spots and can get creative occasionally .

Hero ($700) - playing a very Tag style. Occasionally limps but coming in for a raise most times I enter a pot. Only times I have been to showdown tonight I have had the winner, and shown down strong hands. Last couple orbits have loosened up a lot jk around and laughing with my friend who pulled up a seat at my table.

On to the hand

V opens Co to $20, button calls, sb calls, and hero calls from bb with 66
Flop AJ6:
Checks around. This check indicates V either absolutely loved or hated[ this flop. V is cbetting all Ax hands here on a drawy board into multiple opponents, but will likely check 99+, and sets of aces and jacks.

Turn Q
Sb checks, hero leads $45, V now raises to 145, others fold. Hero calls.
I proceed with caution here. I'm skeptical due to V's style that I'm crushed. Now K10 seems like a possibility, though less likely due to his open pre, and I'm fairly certain AQ and AJ get bet on the drawy flop. Worried I'm behind his entire range here. QQ, JJ, and AA all make sense as played. In hindsight this may have been a fold, but called on off chance it is k10 or that he played AQ or AJ funky, even AK. There's also some smaller semi bluffs in his range such as KQ and KJ, and also QJ made 2 pair

River 8

Hero checks, V deliberates for about 20 seconds and shoves for about $420 total. I caught a subtle tell as he made the all in move as well. Hero??

I feel like we're beat here, but I don't know how.

This V would really check back AA and JJ on this flop? Really??? That's asking for it.


What was the "subtle tell" you saw? That would certainly be helpful here....


Fold river.
Beanfacekilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2016, 10:54 AM   #3
Dutchstreetfish
adept
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: NYC
Posts: 832
Re: 2/5 set of 66

V opened in late position, so KT, especially KTs, is in his range.
I don't think it makes a lot of sense for V to check a set on the flop since its four way action and a wet board. And, because a bet is likely tonight action since this flop could have hit everybody.

V is CO, and the others in the pot are BtN, SB, Bb. Is the BTN very aggressive? Would V expect him to bet this flop a high percentage of the time? Otherwise, I think he'd bet a set on this flop to not give a free roll to three opponents.

I'm not saying he never has a set here, but I'd think he'd make at least a small c bet. Same with a big ace or a flopped two pair.

When H leads turn, it looks like H may have a small A that checked for info on the flop and now thinks a small A is good. So V could be raising to specifically target a small A.

with about 15 hours of history with V, how often is he bluffing here? How often is he over playing a pair or two pair hand? Is he the kind of player who would only ship his stack like this with the nuts? Some players would not ship a set on this board bc KT is pretty likely given how this played out, so if V is pretty tight and aware, that puts KT more squarely in his range.

Not an easy fold. I probably crying call if I think he has any bluffs or spaz in his range but it does feel like bottom set is in big trouble here.
Dutchstreetfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2016, 11:14 AM   #4
FishtermerService
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 269
Re: 2/5 set of 66

I'm never folding a set at 2/5 unless there is a 4 to a straight, or 3 flush cards on the board. Even then, I'm skeptical.
FishtermerService is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2016, 11:36 AM   #5
MikeStarr
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 7,978
Re: 2/5 set of 66

For the same reason that V should bet this flop if he had AA or JJ....Hero shouldve led this flop with 66. Actually Hero has even more reason to bet this flop. There are a lot of hands that V could have that he will never C-Bet into this flop with this many people in the hand so Hero cant expect V to bet for him.

I would also almost never fold a set, but I woudnt play it like this so now Im lost.
MikeStarr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2016, 11:53 AM   #6
battagd1
adept
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 707
Re: 2/5 set of 66

I don't like your check on the flop as I think you lose value and info.

I agree that AQ QQ K10 are possible hands.

I would think Villan would bet flop with JJ and AJ but possibly with AQ

Based on the fact that he has been playing tight I wonder whether he truly has k10. So I guess for me it's either QQ or you have him beat.

I think I call
battagd1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2016, 04:28 PM   #7
sewktbk
journeyman
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 247
Re: 2/5 set of 66

I don't think V checks AQ on this flop in a multiway pot. I think our bottom set is beat here.
sewktbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2016, 05:06 PM   #8
MikeStarr
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 7,978
Re: 2/5 set of 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by sewktbk View Post
I don't think V checks AQ on this flop in a multiway pot. I think our bottom set is beat here.
I agree. Odds are that he has AA, JJ, KT or more likely QQ. He could also have something crazy like Kh9h, but I dont want to find out. As played, Im folding.
MikeStarr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2016, 05:16 PM   #9
SunChips
old hand
 
SunChips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Baltic and Mediterranian
Posts: 1,442
Re: 2/5 set of 66

Whats with the Connecticuter invasion at the isle?

Since it was 1k high hands every 30min

What time did this happen at? If it was before 10pm i'd be nearly 99% sure you are never good here.

If it was after 10pm, i'd be... KTo KTs QQ / KQhh QThh Q9hh K9hh = 4/19 = 79% sure you are not good here.

I really don't think he's going to be shoving QJ here on the river. You are going to see a c-bet nearly 100% of the time from AA, JJ, AJ.

Send me a PM with his name or if you don't know that, describe what he looks like and if I can figure out who he is I can probably give you a better rundown of his range. Was it your friend or your brother who pulled up a seat?
SunChips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2016, 09:16 PM   #10
TeamKB
grinder
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 650
Re: 2/5 set of 66

AA/JJ/AJ/AQ. none of that is in villains range
TeamKB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2016, 10:53 PM   #11
Amanaplan
acanalpanamA
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Getting There
Posts: 4,642
Re: 2/5 set of 66

Fold. Donk flop next time.
Amanaplan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2016, 10:53 PM   #12
sewktbk
journeyman
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 247
Re: 2/5 set of 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamKB View Post
AA/JJ/AJ/AQ. none of that is in villains range
Yeah, we would've seen a cbet OTF with all those.
The flop check and turn raise just looks too much like QQ or KT for our set of 6s to be good here. I can't find a single 2-pair that we beat and plays like this.
sewktbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2016, 11:29 PM   #13
Nice_Guy_Eddie
veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,138
Re: 2/5 set of 66

Absolutely bet the flop. You can play more straightforward against three players. A two-broadway two-flush flop likely hit someone. Start getting money in asap to get value from worse and draws.

3bet shoved the turn. The board on the turn is so draw heavy that you need to get value from them now. You have 10 outs against KT. Too bad if it's set over set. QJ might gii. Your turn bet is too small too. You only bet a little over half the pot. Make it at least $60.

As played, I'd probably call. Your turn bet was super weak and villain may have semibluffed. The heart and 4-card broadway missed. The river card doesn't change anything unless villain binked with T9.

And what is the tell on the river?
Nice_Guy_Eddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 12:04 AM   #14
Broomcorn's Uncle
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 57
Re: 2/5 set of 66

I agree we should bet the flop. How much? Pot was 80. And what does the varying size of our flop bet tell V?
Broomcorn's Uncle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 10:46 AM   #15
ZuneIt
veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Where I can find out how2play poker
Posts: 2,160
Re: 2/5 set of 66

Wtf was the 'subtle tell' as he shoved & what was it telling you?
ZuneIt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 11:17 AM   #16
BackDoorFlush
veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,171
Re: 2/5 set of 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by FishtermerService View Post
I'm never folding a set at 2/5 unless there is a 4 to a straight, or 3 flush cards on the board. Even then, I'm skeptical.
Against drunks/whales/maniacs/tilted players, yes. This guy, this board, this bet. Standard fold.
BackDoorFlush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 11:55 AM   #17
TeamKB
grinder
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 650
Re: 2/5 set of 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by FishtermerService View Post
I'm never folding a set at 2/5 unless there is a 4 to a straight, or 3 flush cards on the board. Even then, I'm skeptical.
you can do better than this with a little hand reading. there are several times ive folded sets in situations that don't fit your criteria. i hate these types of aphoristic mantras.
TeamKB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 11:57 AM   #18
Joey913
old hand
 
Joey913's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pre-flop
Posts: 1,300
Re: 2/5 set of 66

I think I call because we've severely underrepped our hand. We check the flop, and then bet-call the turn, which definitely doesn't scream a set. V could have been semi-bluffing the turn or picked up two pair. We're definitely beat sometimes but I think it's a crying call.
Joey913 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 12:41 PM   #19
BunterRunner
centurion
 
BunterRunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 162
Re: 2/5 set of 66

What was the tell? Plus how much should we bet on the flop, assuming the pot is ~80. I'm thinking 60-65.
BunterRunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 01:16 PM   #20
johnny_on_the_spot
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
johnny_on_the_spot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: S-Mart
Posts: 10,746
Re: 2/5 set of 66

Agree that flop is a donk because we're 4ways on a high card, FD flop. Someone hit it and they'll peel.

AP turn: never expecting to see AA/JJ/AJ+ after V checked with only BTN to act. That's major FPS, unless you've seen him do it before, I wouldn't assume it now. If his range is {QQ, KT, QJ} we have 42% equity and I might be inclined to just GII when he raises our donk bet because they're are random Kxhh hands he might spazz with too

AP river: really depends on your tell and since you have some history if he's capable of shoving with missed Kxhh or QJ




Quote:
Originally Posted by FishtermerService View Post
I'm never folding a set at 2/5 unless there is a 4 to a straight, or 3 flush cards on the board. Even then, I'm skeptical.
Reciprocity...
johnny_on_the_spot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 01:34 PM   #21
Mr. Curious
adept
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Where it is wet
Posts: 1,194
Re: 2/5 set of 66

Is a blocking bet (~$150) on the river out of the question?
Mr. Curious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 01:44 PM   #22
TeamKB
grinder
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 650
Re: 2/5 set of 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Curious View Post
Is a blocking bet (~$150) on the river out of the question?
"here's a checklist to review before we make a blocking bet:
  • we're out of position
  • we do not have a profitable line
  • the opponent bets with worse hands
  • the opponent does not have a bet-sizing tell to distinguish between better hands and worse hands
  • the opponent will not often raise our bet with worse hands
  • the opponent bets large and skillfully
" - Poker's Postflop Course, The River, by Owen Gaines

those are the criteria that describe when a blocking bet might be warranted.
TeamKB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 03:17 PM   #23
suited fours
Pooh-Bah
 
suited fours's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 4,144
Re: 2/5 set of 66

BET THE FLOP
suited fours is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 03:44 PM   #24
Joey913
old hand
 
Joey913's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pre-flop
Posts: 1,300
Re: 2/5 set of 66

All the "bet flop" responses have made curious ... Under what situations should we donk our flopped sets? Does an Ace flopping influence the decision here? When are we not donking our flopped sets and instead looking to c/r the flop or c/r (or donk) turn? I don't think I have a solid grasp and when these different plays would be optimal.
Joey913 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 04:47 PM   #25
suited fours
Pooh-Bah
 
suited fours's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 4,144
Re: 2/5 set of 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey913 View Post
All the "bet flop" responses have made curious ... Under what situations should we donk our flopped sets? Does an Ace flopping influence the decision here? When are we not donking our flopped sets and instead looking to c/r the flop or c/r (or donk) turn? I don't think I have a solid grasp and when these different plays would be optimal.
I would change your question to "under what situations do we not donk our flopped sets?". For the given scenario, I'd probably check a 622 flop. If you have a bluffy x/r flop image, or a certain dynamic going on, by all means check. Mostly, flop a set multiway OOP... bet it.
suited fours is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive