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Old 04-16-2019, 10:52 AM   #1
TheFlyintheroom
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2/5 River spot w/ trips

2/5 at local casino
Hero- 940
Villain- covers

Villain is a very competent player and is one of the better regulars at the casino.

9 handed
$15 dollar open from Utg+1 w/ 2 callers I look down at 67 in the HJ and flat. Villain 3bets to $55. Utg+1, +2 and myself call.

Pot:242

Flop: 1087
Checks through to the villain who cbets $75. Folds to Hero and we call.

Pot:392
Turn:7

Hero checks. Villain checks

River: K

Hero bets $175. Villain shoves all-in. Call or fold?

Looking back I think a check on the river with a good amount of showdown value is the better play, but let me know what you guys think.
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Old 04-16-2019, 12:03 PM   #2
Javanewt
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Re: 2/5 River spot w/ trips

Why on earth did you check the turn? Were you hoping to check/raise?

Against this V, I fold the river. You bet into a three-flush paired board and he shoved -- extremely strong or huge bluff (w/ Ah?). Personally, I fold and kick myself for turn play.
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Old 04-16-2019, 12:51 PM   #3
TheFlyintheroom
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Re: 2/5 River spot w/ trips

I agree the river was played poorly. The bet on the flop and check on the turn looked very weak in my opinion. Iím not sure Iím a fan of donk leading the turn. At what frequency will you be doing this? Are you betting this turn card every time? What size bet are you making there? It seems bloating the pot with a lot of possible scare cards on the river, out of position is putting myself in some very tough spots on later streets. Iím definitely open to understanding this play, but would like some insight on why you think this play is best.
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Old 04-16-2019, 12:55 PM   #4
Javanewt
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Re: 2/5 River spot w/ trips

I like donking the turn because the board is so draw heavy, and I don't want it to check through. I don't mind the call pre and the call of the flop is meh, but once you make the call of the flop, this is about as good as it gets. I'm betting at least half pot, probably a bit more.

Was your plan to check/raise turn?
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Old 04-16-2019, 01:11 PM   #5
BenStiller69
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Re: 2/5 River spot w/ trips

Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt View Post
Why on earth did you check the turn? Were you hoping to check/raise?

Against this V, I fold the river. You bet into a three-flush paired board and he shoved -- extremely strong or huge bluff (w/ Ah?). Personally, I fold and kick myself for turn play.
What could V have though? He cbet with BFD but then doesnt barrel turn? In fact shouldnt you almost always be double barreling if you 3bet pre? He flop the nuts and tries to give a free card so he can get rivered?
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Old 04-16-2019, 01:18 PM   #6
TheFlyintheroom
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Re: 2/5 River spot w/ trips

That was the intention. The player is pretty aggressive and figured that he would be double barreling with a good amount of his range.
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Old 04-16-2019, 01:20 PM   #7
Javanewt
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Re: 2/5 River spot w/ trips

If you were planning to check/raise, I get it. Sucks that it checked through. That board has to be a little scary for him, though, so a donk might have been good if there's a chance he won't bet. Any idea what is EP opening range is?

River bet is fine, but it's a bet/fold unless you have an amazing read on this guy.
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Old 04-16-2019, 01:36 PM   #8
DannyAIC
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Re: 2/5 River spot w/ trips

Preflop: High variance call, but I like it

Flop: you're getting a good price, and this is why you called preflop, would be a shame to fold now with pretty good odds

Turn: This has been talked about allready

River: I'm really wracking my brain here to see what he value bets like this and all I can see are flushes. AK of Diamonds is a possible bluff. In fact maybe all his Ak's. A7 or 87 suited maybe but there's only one of each of those out there.

But I can't see him having an overpair in this spot. Why check the tun when the board paired? Yeah the seven could have hit hero, but hero could also have the flush draw or a higher straight draw.

Problem is too, your line looks like a missed draw. He probably also doesn't think you have a 7 since you checked the turn.

So there 10 Axh (No K, 10, 7)
1 A7sp
1 87sp
12 AK

I think the final thing to consider is if he really thinks you're bluffing, whats he hoping to accomplish by raising with his AK? This took me a while, but yeah, I think you have to fold.
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Old 04-16-2019, 01:52 PM   #9
MarshMan114
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Re: 2/5 River spot w/ trips

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenStiller69 View Post
What could V have though? He cbet with BFD but then doesnt barrel turn? In fact shouldnt you almost always be double barreling if you 3bet pre? He flop the nuts and tries to give a free card so he can get rivered?
Iím on the other side of this argument. V flopped a set and filled up and wanted all draws to get there so he checked the turn. Or had KK, gave up on the flop and binged the river. A bluff shove here takes soul reading to a new level.

Marsh
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Old 04-16-2019, 07:50 PM   #10
KID777777
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Re: 2/5 River spot w/ trips

Did you consider c/raising flop vs small cbet since everyone else has folded, and this board smashes your call/call range pre, you have all sets/2p here

His sizing otf is small I don't see him dbl barrelling often, so in game I prob lead out and hope V gets sticky, yes it's unbalanced but w/e

AP otr this is a soul read, but I lean fold given bluffing frequencies otr
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Old 04-17-2019, 02:43 AM   #11
Minatorr
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Re: 2/5 River spot w/ trips

Competent regs don't squeeze to $55 after an open and 3 callers. His flop 1/3 sizing is also loltastic.

Seems pretty close, don't fault a fold at all. I'm considering calling since he rarely has any straights/FH given the combination of pre action, flop sizing, and turn check. The only hand that really makes any sense is 1010, and i don't know if he chooses that sizing pre, 3b 1010 at 100% frequency or low or not, etc. He should rarely have a straight or KK here. However, just given population tendencies, I probably just end up folding. he'd have to be full spaztard to bet betting AhKx otf and then lol turning it into a bluff otr, or hands like AhQx. yeah sure his line makes no sense at all but can't really come up with any hands he's bluffing with.

on that note, river should def be a bigger bet. if you bet bigger river is an easy b/f. i really don't know why every other page someone bets 40% pot or something with a medium strength hand and then end up in these situations where they get jammed on and level themselves into making what may be a very bad fold or a very bad call. if you wanna bluff, you're incentivized to bet large here, esp when the K is not a good card for your range and is essentially a blank.

turn should be a lead.

Last edited by Minatorr; 04-17-2019 at 02:49 AM.
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Old 04-17-2019, 02:50 AM   #12
barney big nuts
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Re: 2/5 River spot w/ trips

Quote:
Originally Posted by KID777777 View Post
Did you consider c/raising flop vs small cbet since everyone else has folded, and this board smashes your call/call range pre, you have all sets/2p here

His sizing otf is small I don't see him dbl barrelling often, so in game I prob lead out and hope V gets sticky, yes it's unbalanced but w/e

AP otr this is a soul read, but I lean fold given bluffing frequencies otr
as far as the flop check raise goes
if you know that a 7 is gonna turn then yeah but otherwise no
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Old 04-17-2019, 05:45 AM   #13
DonkeyRock
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Re: 2/5 River spot w/ trips

Lead turn, don't mind pre as his 3bet is whatever.

As played river bet should be bigger but I think folding to the shove is fine.
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Old 04-17-2019, 11:15 AM   #14
XxBlo_DroxX
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Re: 2/5 River spot w/ trips

Do you guys think villain could be taking this line with AJ or AQ of diamonds? (A8dd maybe?)

Maybe explains his small 3bet and very small cbet.

If he had AK I think he just calls river with that.

TT and 88 doesn't make much sense because a good reg would have Cbet much bigger.

JJ-AA probably 3bets bigger pre.
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Old 04-17-2019, 02:44 PM   #15
BenStiller69
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Re: 2/5 River spot w/ trips

Honestly I think V is probably just a goon with imbalanced postflop ranges. He 3bet with Ax hh, took a stab on the flop because thats what the book says to do, gave up on turn/looking for cheap river, binked and is just going for fat value.
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Old 04-17-2019, 03:52 PM   #16
jdr0317
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Re: 2/5 River spot w/ trips

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFlyintheroom View Post
2/5 at local casino
Hero- 940
Villain- covers

Villain is a very competent player and is one of the better regulars at the casino.

9 handed
$15 dollar open from Utg+1 w/ 2 callers I look down at 67 in the HJ and flat. Villain 3bets to $55. Utg+1, +2 and myself call.

Pot:242

Flop: 1087
Checks through to the villain who cbets $75.
Folds to Hero and we call.

Pot:392
Turn:7

Hero checks. Villain checks

River: K

Hero bets $175. Villain shoves all-in. Call or fold?

Looking back I think a check on the river with a good amount of showdown value is the better play, but let me know what you guys think.


I don't love a turn donk as other players said. But like, it all depends on this guy's range right? And I don't even know how to range this dude because of the above; his play before the turn is terrible for all holdings (3 bet pre too small, bet a soaking wet flop for a size that's so lol that bottom pair + gutshot is correct to peel OOP). Like if we knew he has QQ-AA then sure let's bet bet so he's not compelled to hero fold. But if he's just a goomba with AK/AQ and no equity at all, betting just shuts all those crappy hands out.
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Old 04-20-2019, 06:30 PM   #17
BackDoorFlush
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Re: 2/5 River spot w/ trips

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFlyintheroom View Post
Villain is a very competent player and is one of the better regulars at the casino.
No, just no. His line/sizing is absolutely terrible.
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Old 04-20-2019, 09:41 PM   #18
MarshMan114
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Re: 2/5 River spot w/ trips

Results?
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Old 04-21-2019, 03:16 PM   #19
SameRiverTwice
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Re: 2/5 River spot w/ trips

I'd fold the flop in a right hurry. Villian is supposedly competent and bet a very wet board 4 ways after 3 betting. Are you going to bluff him off an overpair on a lot of future streets? If not don't continue (bluffing LLSNL players off overpairs isn't a great idea in general).

check calling river is pretty nitty. I'd consider a check call or check raise though. He's going to bet the bulk of the range that will call a bet.

he's not bluffing river.
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Old 04-22-2019, 09:47 AM   #20
Aulm
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Re: 2/5 River spot w/ trips

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFlyintheroom View Post
Villain is a very competent player and is one of the better regulars at the casino.

9 handed
$15 dollar open from Utg+1 w/ 2 callers I look down at 67 in the HJ and flat. Villain 3bets to $55. Utg+1, +2 and myself call.
What makes you think this guy is competent? Please explain why you think this about him. Cause as others have said, this 3-bet pre-flop makes no sense to anyone that know what they are doing.

AP, I think the calls pre-flop are totally fine.
You want to see a cheap flop with this hand and there are two limpers in already. Because our incompetent villain has raised so small, he has given everyone a fantastic price to call and see a flop - not something you want to do regardless of wether Villain has AA or some sort of bluff/squeeze hand.

On the flop you call is terrible.
You're OOP and its hard for you to improve. If you do, you might make a second best hand that will cost you heaps if behind, but you won't win much if you're ahead. Just fold and save your ammo for a better spot.

As far as the rest of the hand goes - I don't know, because you shouldn't be in this spot in the first place. Your mistake was on the flop. Given the action, I think he has you beat. The King makes the flush, straight, and some full houses. AK would just call. So fold.
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