Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
2/5 River jam too thin? 2/5 River jam too thin?

11-13-2019 , 03:04 PM
This spot left a bitter taste in my mouth. After getting tons of folds all night with premiums and getting the nit treatment we probably deserved, Hero had just double barrel bluffed into a MW field to hit the river in a nice pot and shatter my 3.5 hour nit image.

V1 ($500) is on the BU and was in the bluff hand and mucked but was certainly ahead before the river. He's been topping off for hours and is clearly tilting now. Loose passive who seems to just call down more and more frequently as the night goes on.

Hero ($1100) is in the BB and had been nitty all night before bluffing into a river bink.

OTTH: Folds to V1 who limps the BU, SB call, Hero $30 in the BB with QQ. V1 call, SB fold.

Flop ($60): KQ3
Hero $20, V call.

Turn ($100): KQ38
Hero $100. This probably seems excessive but after the last hand where I bet big on the turn when I was weak I thought this line had a great chance of getting at least called by Kx and spade draws. Maybe even 9x. Also if he has JT or some straight draw he's not folding anyway. V calls fairly quickly. Another reason for sizing up is that it sets up a nice river jam.

River ($300): KQ38J
This card stopped my in my tracks. His Kx is still toast but will it really call off stacks now that a straight and flush draws have hit the river. If he has 2 pair he may bet if we check. All of the sudden it seems too thin to rip. I was ripping any blank but now I want to x/c. V only has about $350 left. Hero?
2/5 River jam too thin? Quote
11-13-2019 , 03:17 PM
is
Loose passive who seems to just call down more and more frequently as the night goes on.

going to all of a sudden change stripes and bet river if you check ??????

I'm betting here
2/5 River jam too thin? Quote
11-13-2019 , 03:24 PM
Given tilting villain's loose calling tendencies I'm sizing up everywhere.

PF 40
Flop 50
Turn 125
leaves a trivial river jam.
2/5 River jam too thin? Quote
11-13-2019 , 03:26 PM
What is going on with all these tiny flop bets? Hand after hand, it's 1/3 or 1/4 and/or downbetting. Am I missing something? Anyway, I don't like it.

After the previous hand, turn seems fine/good.

River is kind of tough. Has he tilted so much that he's calling with worse or folding better? I doubt either. Can we possibly bet/fold with middle set into a $300 when V has only $350 behind? Nope.

It's MUBsy, but I check/call. Give him the chance to make the mistake. If he checks behind, you weren't getting more anyway.

Shoving is fine, too, but what's he been calling with? Top pair only?

I would have liked it better if you bet more on flop to set up a trivial shove.
2/5 River jam too thin? Quote
11-13-2019 , 03:47 PM
There are often good reasons for smaller sizings.

Often related to targetting villain's range, combined with board textures and for balance.

This is often needed in tougher games especially when you will play many of the same opponents often.

As with many concepts that have come and gone a lot of people start mimicking things they see better players do. Often without fully understanding how to apply the concepts appropriately. I'm not saying this was the case here at all. Just trying to shed light on why you are likely seeing it more often.

Anyways to this board in a vacuum it makes sense to jave a smaller sizing. What is a typical villain continuing with? Unlikely he has a Q. He limped the button so unlikely to have a strong K.

The only draw is JT.

As you can see his range on this board isn't that strong whereas hero's is very strong.

In these instances smaller sizings put more of his range in a tough spot, you get value from way bejind hands more often, balances your bluffs which you can do for cheaper and they can't just auto raise you because your sizing is small.

Anyways like I said with this villain all that can go out the window if he sucks and is a tilting calling station. Then I'm sizing to get stacks in. I'm not going to balance vs people who aren't paying attention or would never do anything with the information anyways because it's not in their nature or abilities.
2/5 River jam too thin? Quote
11-13-2019 , 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman
is
Loose passive who seems to just call down more and more frequently as the night goes on.

going to all of a sudden change stripes and bet river if you check ??????

I'm betting here
True it's unlikely he bets river but not impossible. Is your river bet all in? He's over calling but with this run out even he can get away given it will be large and a lot of my perceived bluffs may have gotten there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
Given tilting villain's loose calling tendencies I'm sizing up everywhere.

PF 40
Flop 50
Turn 125
leaves a trivial river jam.
I like this line but we block so much value on this flop we are hoping for Kx or JT only when we size 50 OTF. This seems to thin. We know he wants to call so I wanted to keep him wide OTF then punish later streets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
What is going on with all these tiny flop bets? Hand after hand, it's 1/3 or 1/4 and/or downbetting. Am I missing something? Anyway, I don't like it.

After the previous hand, turn seems fine/good.

River is kind of tough. Has he tilted so much that he's calling with worse or folding better? I doubt either. Can we possibly bet/fold with middle set into a $300 when V has only $350 behind? Nope.

It's MUBsy, but I check/call. Give him the chance to make the mistake. If he checks behind, you weren't getting more anyway.

Shoving is fine, too, but what's he been calling with? Top pair only?

I would have liked it better if you bet more on flop to set up a trivial shove.
With his stack size I thought we'd still be able to get it in by the river. Also as mentioned above we know he wants to call so I want to keep him wide OTF. He's overcalling but he's still folding AT, T9, J8 type gutters and speculative hands if we bomb flop. I feel like we are only targeting Kx and JT if we go big OTF since we block Qx and he shouldn't have any 3x. I had your exact thought process OTR MUBsy as it may be. I thought he would call 2 pair or an under set only with that run out but I could be wrong, it's hard to measure tilt. So if our read is right and we are only targeting KJ, K8, and under sets when we purposely left it wide on the flop and allowed AT, T9, and spades to come in it just seems too thin all the sudden. But again maybe I'm just MUBsy.
2/5 River jam too thin? Quote
11-13-2019 , 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by c0rnBr34d
True it's unlikely he bets river but not impossible. Is your river bet all in? He's over calling but with this run out even he can get away given it will be large and a lot of my perceived bluffs may have gotten there.


.
I'm in the minority most likely
but if you think he folds to an all-in
bet $175ish with intent of calling if V jams

I already hear it ; you will win $175 or lose $350 but a passive V is not likely to raise or bet here.
like you felt your jam is only getting called if you're beat so the other way you make $0 or lose $350
2/5 River jam too thin? Quote
11-13-2019 , 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman
I'm in the minority most likely
but if you think he folds to an all-in
bet $175ish with intent of calling if V jams

I already hear it ; you will win $175 or lose $350 but a passive V is not likely to raise or bet here.
like you felt your jam is only getting called if you're beat so the other way you make $0 or lose $350
I actually like this the more I think about it. I should have tanked, then I may have come up with this. I was so set on shipping and let the J disgust me since I thought there was a good chance he had Kx and may call down a brick but now could get away. There's also a small chance a tilted guy can spaz. Guess I got too emotional.
2/5 River jam too thin? Quote
11-13-2019 , 06:22 PM
V limped BTN, Hero blocks KQ combos, so his range looks more like JT, perhaps KJ/KT. Not too worried about Js.

$190/call.
2/5 River jam too thin? Quote
11-13-2019 , 07:36 PM
Not worried at all, half pot otr. Sizing up otf as well
2/5 River jam too thin? Quote

      
m