What version of GTO are you guys using where you’re supposed to check when you have a range advantage?

The clearance deal version including plastic dice randomizers.

Hey Matzah and 67o, if you’re actually curious why you’d want to check back top pair aces IP in 3! pots watch 22:00 minutes into this play & explain by Steffen Sontheimmer. Rumour has it that he’s pretty solid player. I think he plays above 2/5 sometimes.

He must use the clearance sale version with plastic dice.

(I just came across this now, he’s basically saying exactly what Mr. Spyu was saying)

Edit: “you’re welcome”

I was convinced a long time ago Matzah is just a troll. I stopped responding to any of his posts since.

I’m convinced I’m a troll too, but your “nonresponse” isn’t really an argument.

I think the problem is that your preflop range is just screwed up. 3betting 88+ and AJ here is clearly wrong.

Oh jeez, I forgot to even include the link. Lulz.

Yeah, that would have helped

I don’t necessarily disagree with checking Axx flops as the 3bettor in practice, but I fail to see how it’s GTO. And if we’re worried that our opponent has so many more aces than us after we 3bet that suggests either: 1) we’re 3betting too wide and need to tighten up or 2) our opponent is calling too wide, in which case we should be blasting the pot with AK to get value from all his weak aces.

I scratched my head at the flop check, so I fired up a solver, assigned some reasonable ranges to hero and villain, and it looks like that if we use a 3/4-pot bet size on the flop, hero should be betting any offsuit ace with a Kh kicker 60% of the time and checking 40%. Because I am a bear of very little brain at game speed, I would bet it 100 percent.

With 1/3-pot bet, the bet-to-check ratio looks more like 3 to 7, so I would check.

Disclaimer: I haven't done any runs with different ranges than my first pick, so I have no sense of how robust these recommendations are.

At any rate, it does seem like there is merit in checking back at least some of the time, and (with larger sizing) it also seems like there is merit in betting.

To explain to the dubious people why we would consider checking back in the first place, think about what we are betting overall here, and what we are checking. The only draws we have in our range are heart draws, and we just don't have many of those, so if we want our semibluffs balanced against our value bets, we shouldn't be betting very many hands for value, basically AA, QQ, and AQ. If we reach deeper into our range for thinner semibluffs, we can add more value bets and still be balanced. But we want our checking range to be balanced also, so that the villain can't punish us by stabbing when we check back.

In the end, if we have enough AX in our three-betting range we can bet TPTK for value. But that's if we are 3-betting hands like AJs+, or A4s or A5s. If our initial 3-betting range is tight, then we aren't betting the few AX that we have.

There is also the added benefit of what this does for our entire range in this spot. Imo this is one of the best (or at least better) candidates along with a better specific V to check back against here.
We will also have plenty of other hands in our 3! range here that are crushed by betting this flop (nobody said check this spot 100% btw, just that it’s perfectly reasonable here).
Having the Kh also blocks a significant number of value combo calls that V can have. There are really several very logical reasons to check back this flop. You are only getting 3 streets of value here against a complete fish.

I'd just call. Our AK is good for two streets of value, which we kind of got if our call is good. I guess your question is whether we'd raise river or call, more than fold?

I haven't read all answers but am curious to know what you did and why.

BTW, I like to check flop too, for the same reasons you talked about in some replies.

This exactly, as I mentioned this was against one of the better regs. Against bad players I bet here. My plan was to extract 2 streets of value while protecting my range. Id rather bet my low weak suited aces here.

This was also a while ago but thinking back on it I am almost certain it was the Ah I had not the Kh. Might change things a bit blocking alot of the nut flush combos, which almost certainly meant I was going to be way ahead most of the time.

I actually felt so confident that his river bet was a blocker type bet after he didn't raise the turn that I actually ended up raising because I thought he was capable of calling down even a strong King. Hindsight I regret doing this even though it worked and he called with worse.