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Old 12-29-2016, 05:39 PM   #26
keybattle
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

Why people think V has polarized range to sets, straights and airs. V can easily value bets 2p combos as well. It could be also as thin as AT


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Old 12-29-2016, 05:43 PM   #27
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

Yeah, fold flop. I can guarantee it isnt a +EV call, no matter how well you think you can outplay people. The opener is basically almost never bluffing, and there are two players behind who can easily smash this flop. Generally it's a pretty bad idea to float multiway with weak equity.

Pre is just not good. Vs a standard range, QTs is dominated too much. 3-bet or fold pre. You're also getting squeezed a non-zero amount of times by 5ish players behind you, and don't have ultimate or near ultimate position

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Old 12-29-2016, 05:48 PM   #28
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

On flop, I should add that we're not closing the action which makes this even more of a fold, because both SB and BB could be setting up a check-raise here with sets or 98, and our hand can't call another raise.
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Old 12-29-2016, 05:50 PM   #29
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

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Originally Posted by keybattle View Post
Why people think V has polarized range to sets, straights and airs. V can easily value bets 2p combos as well. It could be also as thin as AT


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+1. Though i don't think people would actually jam A10s. Probably 300
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Old 12-30-2016, 08:03 AM   #30
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

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Originally Posted by Minatorr View Post
Yeah, fold flop. I can guarantee it isnt a +EV call, no matter how well you think you can outplay people. The opener is basically almost never bluffing, and there are two players behind who can easily smash this flop. Generally it's a pretty bad idea to float multiway with weak equity.

Pre is just not good. Vs a standard range, QTs is dominated too much. 3-bet or fold pre. You're also getting squeezed a non-zero amount of times by 5ish players behind you, and don't have ultimate or near ultimate position
Either your 2/5 games are really tough or you're losing a **** tonne of value if you're folding suited Broadways pre in this spot.

Also disagree that EP raiser is never cbet bluffing this flop... What are you talking about?
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Old 12-30-2016, 09:08 AM   #31
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

Would be a nitty fold pre if you fold.
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Old 12-30-2016, 10:07 AM   #32
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

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Either your 2/5 games are really tough or you're losing a **** tonne of value if you're folding suited Broadways pre in this spot.
So you're calling UTG opens in MP with any suited broadways? Seems like a losing play with RIO. I'd agree with you if we were OTB or closing the action in BB or something.
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Old 12-30-2016, 10:18 AM   #33
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

What I learned from this thread is no matter what villain says or which hand he plays, he's doing it all wrong.

Fwiw op I would never fold pre and I like your line, and villain made a good call.


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Old 12-30-2016, 11:14 AM   #34
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

'Hero' played fine pre and on the flop. Turn is tricky. I think hero should check and evaluate. A check through is a good result. After villain bets and BB folds, I'd prefer shoving or folding instead of calling. I can find a nit fold without reads because hero blocks the Td, limiting the number of semibluffs. The river action is not unexpected after villains sizable turn bet. If you're going to call this off, I'd rather have shoved the turn.

The 'villain' should have folded pre. QTs in MP against an EP raise is not profitable. I'd be fine with the call in LP or from the blinds.

The flop is also a fold because you have no backdoor flush draw, a couple easily dominated overs, and a gut shot. Not a good spot with two players yet to act and an EP raiser still firing into three opponents. A call isn't terrible if you expect the blinds to never c/r.

I probably check back the turn for a free shot to bink. The 7 isn't a great bluff card because it puts a flush draw/straight on the board. If you had info that 'hero' often folds after one cbet, then I think a bet is the right move. Absent reads, I probably check it with only 3 nut outs. As played, the river is a trivial shove since the A is a good bluff card and your Q-high isn't winning. This would have been a well played hand postflop with QdTd.
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Old 12-30-2016, 11:26 AM   #35
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

Some reason I thought our Hero/V was the guy in BB simply because he said good reg.

So yeah, if we're the guy in MP and have QTs. I'm totally fine with fold pre-flop.
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Old 12-30-2016, 11:48 AM   #36
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

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Villain is young good reg with not much history w/ each other. He's a winning good reg who is capable of moves, pays attention, looks for edges, etc. This is all second hand info from another reg. He plays generally tag
The main problem with reverse HH is incomplete or inaccurate reads. Who knows if 'hero' believes the above to be true or not about 'villain'. We also have no idea when 'hero' thinks of himself.

The turn decision is super read dependent. We can't possibly make quality recommendations.
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Old 12-30-2016, 11:58 AM   #37
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

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You guys think flop is a fold with QT? Two overs and a gutshot to the nuts on a rainbow board in position. Never folding flop there.
It's probably a fold pre, definitely a fold four ways on the flop. Villain's range is going to be heavy weighted to overpairs when he continues with this many people and we don't even get to see the turn for sure, nor are we guaranteed to be last to act. Calling flop is burning money.

We don't really have two overcards vs an UTG+2 raising range.
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Old 12-31-2016, 12:02 AM   #38
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

Folding this pre still seems bad to me at any 2/5 that's worth sitting. I would fold this pre if there were very active 3bettors still to act, but that's about the only time.

Can maybe see folding flop.

Last edited by Jarretman; 12-31-2016 at 12:12 AM.
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Old 12-31-2016, 03:11 AM   #39
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

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Originally Posted by Nice_Guy_Eddie View Post
The main problem with reverse HH is incomplete or inaccurate reads. Who knows if 'hero' believes the above to be true or not about 'villain'. We also have no idea when 'hero' thinks of himself.



The turn decision is super read dependent. We can't possibly make quality recommendations.

Totally agree with points on reverse HH


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