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Old 12-28-2016, 09:39 AM   #1
Jarretman
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2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

Effective $700

Villain is young good reg with not much history w/ each other. He's a winning good reg who is capable of moves, pays attention, looks for edges, etc. This is all second hand info from another reg. He plays generally tag

Preflop hero with TdTs opens for $20 from UTG+2, villain calls in MP, SB calls, BB calls (good reg).

Flop ($80): 9d8s3h

SB checks, BB checks, hero bets $50, villain calls, BB calls

Turn($230): 7d

BB checks, hero checks, villain bets $160, BB folds, hero calls

River($550): As

Hero checks, villain jams for $480, hero?

I guess I could have played turn different but as played fold or call?
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Old 12-28-2016, 09:53 AM   #2
dustinitoff
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

Meh fold river as played. Think he is checking back all his pair+SD hands that you're beating so you're only really beating air, of which i guess only QTdd makes much sense, not much else.

I probably prefer betting turn but its meh either way bet or c/c
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Old 12-28-2016, 10:06 AM   #3
Shamway99
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

It is difficult for V to get to river with a good bluff. Maybe 2 combos T9s is good bluff, blocks nuts and attacks TT-KK. Not enough to balance 88/99/JTs.
Imo river is fold.
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Old 12-28-2016, 10:18 AM   #4
Dochrohan
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

As played, it's not a bad hand to mix into your call range on river. Just not so sure it's going to be good enough to call in this spot. I think heads up, I'm more inclined to call here and given this was 3 way on the turn when he bet and his sizing, might just be inclined to fold river.

TT-JJ are the hands you want to bluff catch with here on the river.

Hands we beat

QJ QT, T9, and 67. It's actually a better river card for our range than V's and he's firing all-in at you. I'd expect him to do this with all his made hands and all his bluffs.

I don't see V raising 89 or a set on this flop so you have to factor in all those cards. I could even see him floating 77 on the flop.

So 99 88 33 and 98s with maybe 2/3 the combos of 77 since not sure he floats 100% here and some JT combos.

Also some A8s-A9s improve on river.

Villain is probably a little upset with most of his made hands that an Ace fell on the river.

Seems too thin to catch here.
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Old 12-28-2016, 10:48 AM   #5
Javanewt
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

I don't like it, but I'm MUBsy in these spots, especially with the A on the river.
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Old 12-28-2016, 10:49 AM   #6
Jarretman
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

Isn't this like the best hand (along with JJ) to bluff catch here?
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:03 AM   #7
Javanewt
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

If you think he is bluffing enough, yes. This is a spot where you really need to know your opponent, and you know him better than we do.

What do you think he called with on the flop? He's in MP, not LP. I highly doubt it was nothing, and you block many Ts for a straight draw.
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:03 AM   #8
Shamway99
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

JJ is much better than TT. Beats his possible TT bluff at least.
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Old 12-28-2016, 02:56 PM   #9
ASLheadwalk
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

Bet/folding the turn I like better than check/calling. Eventhough we block JT this feels like we're beat, he could def bet A9 on river too.
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Old 12-28-2016, 04:05 PM   #10
keybattle
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2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

I like your line. Bet/fold turns sucks with a lot of equity you have. Check call turn is good. Now check fold river, you even have Td. He is not overbluffing 3 way pot turn as well as brick river.

Also, blocking straights here is not that a good blockers. He still has many 2p, sets combos along with some straights.

It's 2/5 live. People even regs are not exploiting you



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Old 12-28-2016, 05:14 PM   #11
Jarretman
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

I did the annoying thing of swapping hands in this thread. I was "villain", I had QTcc.
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Old 12-28-2016, 05:17 PM   #12
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarretman View Post
I did the annoying thing of swapping hands in this thread. I was "villain", I had QTcc.
How was this information about yourself known?

Villain is young good reg with not much history w/ each other. He's a winning good reg who is capable of moves, pays attention, looks for edges, etc. This is all second hand info from another reg. He plays generally tag
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Old 12-28-2016, 05:43 PM   #13
ASLheadwalk
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

Very nice bluff. If V bet his TT on the turn you think you would jam or call and bluff river if checked to?
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Old 12-28-2016, 06:11 PM   #14
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarretman View Post
I did the annoying thing of swapping hands in this thread. I was "villain", I had QTcc.
I was wondering why you had such a hard on for this villain.
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Old 12-28-2016, 07:50 PM   #15
Keys Kid
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

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Originally Posted by kidgambol View Post
I was wondering why you had such a hard on for this villain.
Almost sounded like you were describing myself lol
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Old 12-28-2016, 09:40 PM   #16
Jarretman
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

Real villain in this hand is a friend of a friend of mine. Tbh the desc could be way off from how he actually perceives me, but according to him that's the desc he was given from the mutual friend. FWIW he called with TT so nh him.
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Old 12-28-2016, 10:52 PM   #17
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

Prob xf turn vs this sizing.
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Old 12-29-2016, 03:17 AM   #18
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

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Originally Posted by Jarretman View Post
I did the annoying thing of swapping hands in this thread. I was "villain", I had QTcc.
What are you doing OTF with Q high and no BDFD? Fold or bluff-raise and jam turn. Fold is much better though.
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Old 12-29-2016, 03:22 AM   #19
Dochrohan
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

Flop is actually a fold with no bdfd. Even if no bdfd came on turn, you can still bluff-raise this turn. But if you're doing it too much, going to be picking you off with those exact hands TT-JJ some % of the time.
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Old 12-29-2016, 03:41 AM   #20
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

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Originally Posted by Jarretman View Post
Isn't this like the best hand (along with JJ) to bluff catch here?
Isn't this like a great hand to bet bet shove?
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Old 12-29-2016, 10:54 AM   #21
scelsi
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

I'm snapping this off with 9x fyi, this is pretty polarized and unless we know that you (V) ships TT+ in this spot, essentially merging, then it's a pretty easy call tbh.

I like it better if you raise flop and ship turn with more FE and your draw.
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Old 12-29-2016, 01:43 PM   #22
Dochrohan
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

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I'm snapping this off with 9x fyi, this is pretty polarized and unless we know that you (V) ships TT+ in this spot, essentially merging, then it's a pretty easy call tbh.

I like it better if you raise flop and ship turn with more FE and your draw.
How many 9x is even in your range here pre-flop.

You're right, it's polarized to sets and straights.

Not a ton of bluffs. Plus you don't have a ton of bluff catches.

Your check/call line on turn is pretty polarized. You're either drawing or have an overpair.
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Old 12-29-2016, 05:06 PM   #23
Jarretman
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

You guys think flop is a fold with QT? Two overs and a gutshot to the nuts on a rainbow board in position. Never folding flop there.
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Old 12-29-2016, 05:23 PM   #24
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

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Originally Posted by Jarretman View Post
You guys think flop is a fold with QT? Two overs and a gutshot to the nuts on a rainbow board in position. Never folding flop there.
I'd like to hear more from the flop folding crowd too as wrt to how bad it really is in a live game when Villains are capable of checking TT on the turn and/or paying off J/Q turns/rivers way too often. I mean is the 3-4% deficit really that damaging to where you're folding without the bdfd?
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Old 12-29-2016, 05:25 PM   #25
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Re: 2/5 river bluff catch spot vs good reg

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Originally Posted by Jarretman View Post
You guys think flop is a fold with QT? Two overs and a gutshot to the nuts on a rainbow board in position. Never folding flop there.
This is probably a fold pre from the BB. Flop is a fold. if we hit one of our overcards, we could be facing RIO against hands like AQ or AT that are c-betting with air, or overpairs that are betting for value. Basically drawing to hit our gutshot, and our ability to extract a ton of value if we do bink is limited because we're out of position and it's hard for V to have a monster on this board unless they have a set.
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