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2/5 - QQ vs unpredictable reg 2/5 - QQ vs unpredictable reg

03-10-2012 , 04:12 AM
Live late night 2/5 at the Isle in Pompano, FL on a Friday night.

We are 8 handed and the table is actually fairly tight, with the exception of a couple of decent regulars, one whom I have history with (villain in BB).

I am playing tight and very aggressive on the rare occasions I enter pots, if anyone is paying attention. Some are, some aren't.

I am UTG+1 with QQ

Folded to me, I raise to $25. My stack is about $700, and the effective stack size is all over the place. Some have $100, others have $1500. The BB has $320. Standard raise at the table is $15-$25. Anything over is rarely getting action, otherwise I always go bigger here. There's a fair amount of limped pots as well.

Folded to BB who calls. I'm surprised he called me. It felt like a loose call, I guess because he knows I'm a decent reg and we generally don't tangle much. He is a quiet, tricky, aggressive Asian opponent who mixes it up well, reads well, and is slightly loose. Nope, this is not the best game in the room, but there's a steaming uber-fish sitting out.

Pot: $50
Flop: K67
Villain leads out for $25.
I call $25.

Pot: $100
Turn: K67K
Villain bets $50, leaving himself with $220 behind.
I study for a while, realize I might seem weak, but do call.

Pot: $200
River: K67K9
Villain bets $205.

As I tank, he finally says "what you kicker?"
2/5 - QQ vs unpredictable reg Quote
03-10-2012 , 05:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dark_horse
As I tank, he finally says "what you kicker?"
As played, Call.

You took a pretty transparent line, especially in not raising on the turn. Your UTG+1 raising range should probably be raising this turn if you have a king, and he smells that. I'm not suggesting you should have raised the turn, but if you're calling turn and the river peels relatively safe this is a pretty easy call.

Last edited by Zaraza; 03-10-2012 at 05:48 AM.
2/5 - QQ vs unpredictable reg Quote
03-10-2012 , 07:15 AM
As played, fold.
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03-10-2012 , 07:38 AM
cant we just fold flop? srs
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03-10-2012 , 07:39 AM
if he has never done this - fold - if he has done this as a bluff - and he is a little tilty, you should call.
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03-10-2012 , 08:16 AM
folding flop is kinda weak - but has merit
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03-10-2012 , 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by djevans
folding flop is kinda weak - but has merit
Folding flop isnt weak. This flop is awful for our hand. Every card smacks his range harder than ike hit tina. How many cards do we like to see ott? Barely any. If he mixes it up as said, he could def lead with top pair here. I dont see this flop bet ever really being a bluff. Especially if villain tends to stay away from you.
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03-10-2012 , 11:53 AM
I can't believe several are advocating folding otf. This described V can lead so much wider than Kx+ on this board. The 7c6c on the board adds tons of draws to his donk range and I think he can also lead with 7x and pps. Hero has position too.

I don't have as much of an issue with folding ott because I believe a second barrel a lot more than the first. But, I probably still call for the same reasons as on the flop plus the halfpot bet size.

I think his bet otr polarizes his range to missed draws and Kx+. I think he reads you for what you have a high pp. As such, why is he now betting full pot after two half pot bets? It seems a little suspicious to me. Most people who read u for a pp on this board will make a smaller bet to be called.

Him saying "what you kicker" could mean one of two things imo. Either he is bluffing and wants to imply that he has a King or he has a FH and thinks hero has a king.

You only have to win approx 33% on the river and there are more bluffs than strong hands with this line. I'm calling here.
2/5 - QQ vs unpredictable reg Quote
03-10-2012 , 12:01 PM
I obviously don't know the villain, but leading ranges vary widely player to player. Here are some observations:

1. Fish: lead with marginal made hands, like TPMK-, middle pair, etc. They do it to define their hand lol. Solution is usually to call a couple of streets and then define the hand for them by raising river (or turn).

2. Meh regs: a lot of times they do it with draws or TPGK.

3. Good players: they typically lead on boards unlikely to get c-bet by their opponents with a strong range of 2pr+ and big draws that they are committed to.

My guess is this Guy's leading range OTF is: Kxcc, NFD, 67s, 66, 77, maybe KQ/KJ.

Him asking you about kicker means he doesn't have a K. He has a boat trying to convince you he has a K, or busted clubs/counterfeited 67 trying to convince you of the same. Since he would frequently c/r this flop with sets given that he should expect you to c-bet here a lot, I think his range is skewed towards busted draws that were block-betting flop/turn.

I call.
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03-10-2012 , 12:07 PM
Folding the flop is really, really terrible IMO.
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03-10-2012 , 12:15 PM
agree folding flop is super weak. You can raise the flop as well and if he continues, you can narrow his range considerably and fold.
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03-10-2012 , 02:36 PM
I'd rather raise/fold or raise/call the flop than just fold.

As played it's a sigh call. Your hand is face up and V with a flush draw is betting here all day to push you off your pair.

Usually when a V asks what your kicker is he doesn't have the trips. He just wants you to think (a) he has it and (b) he wants you to believe he bet into you believe you had a King.
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03-10-2012 , 02:37 PM
A little more info: I considered shoving turn but knew he'd never call off with a draw. Also, 58 and T8 got there, although are these hands really in his calling range? If suited, perhaps.. When he said "what you kicker" I immediately assumed he didn't have a king and my first instinct was it was designed to get a call. I don't know him well enough to know if he's smart enough to use that as a level (i.e. he's bluffing). My first instinct on turn was to shove, and my first instinct on river was to call. His comment then made me want to fold.
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03-10-2012 , 03:17 PM
Does his betsizing on the river of 205 when his remaining stack was only 220 give u any reads? This is peculiar - why not just push all-in with the extra 15? Is he trying to convey strength that isn't there?
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03-10-2012 , 03:37 PM
I don't think I should be putting too much stock in the little details like that, or in his little speech. He's a decent, manipulative player and those moves could mean anything. In this case I just look at the bet sizes as a whole. But for what it's worth, he did bet $105 into a $100 pot a little bit earlier. In my opinion when someone leads small, small, then big, the big one means he either has it or just got there. But that's with most players..
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03-10-2012 , 04:25 PM
Small bet, small bet, bomb is the nuts. Your flop and turn peels are questionable but valid in this hand(I would do the same). OTR calling here is just terrible. Only thing you beat are busted draws.

During the hand I put villain on TP meh Kicker/flush draw. Mainly I put him on a flush draw. When the king hits the turn he almost never has a king here. Otr he over bets, my read is wrong that his hand is weighted towards flush draws. Villain is now weighted towards strong hands. I weight him towards K9/99, the only two hands that make sense with his line.

"And that's why this is a easy fold".
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03-10-2012 , 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dark_horse
I'm surprised he called me. It felt like a loose call, I guess
Also, if this read is correct, then we can eliminate KK, 99, 77, 66, AK, KQ, and maybe KJ from his range. These hands aren't considered loose calls but standard calls from this type of V. This also reduces the number of FH combos to K9, K7s, and K6s.
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03-10-2012 , 07:22 PM
Tough spot. When he says that line it instantly makes me think he's on a busted draw. He should know you don't have a K here, therefore he should be more apt to shove this river with his draws. It's either a boat or a draw, and I would lean more towards a draw. Tough spot to call tho hah.
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03-10-2012 , 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by High__Rolla
Also, if this read is correct, then we can eliminate KK, 99, 77, 66, AK, KQ, and maybe KJ from his range. These hands aren't considered loose calls but standard calls from this type of V. This also reduces the number of FH combos to K9, K7s, and K6s.
How can you eliminate 99,77,66 here? I'm confused.
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03-10-2012 , 07:27 PM
*grunch*

Holding QQ here, I don't like the K on the flop, and I don't want to become passive when Villain donks into me. I'm either folding or raising, and in this case I'm definitely raising.

Imagine that you make it $75 to go when he donks into you. You're making him call $50 into a pot of $125. If he reraises, you fold. If he calls, and continues on the turn, you fold. If he checks the turn, you probably check behind, unless you got help. You call a moderate-sized bet on the river, maybe.

With this line, you keep initiative longer, you give yourself a little FE on the flop, you may see a free river card for the same price you paid in the hand as played. You should have a better read on your villain.

As played, I'm folding this river w/o a strong read that villain is 3 barreling a busted FD.
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03-10-2012 , 10:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoicestHops
How can you eliminate 99,77,66 here? I'm confused.
Based on hero's read if correct that the preflop call from the bb was loose. I think this type of villian would consider these hands to be a standard call preflop in this spot not a loose call. OP didn't elaborate on why he thought it was loose - whether it was just feel or there was a verbal or physical indication. So I would be careful about saying its an absolute read without one of these tells.
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