2/5

I'm UTG with QQ I think I'm playing pretty standard so far, nothing in particular. 900 to start

Button- Not much history nor reads with this player. Seems like a competent player, and knows what's he's doing. He probably has played or might have some history with V1 in the SB. 800 to start

V1- SB. He plays poker as an "alpha-male" player. He's also kinda plays this game as a "ego contest", and always trying to always show-up other people. He previously called a 3-bet with 52o. He's for sure capable of bluffing jamming, and doing super spaszy things. In other words, I don't respect his ranges. Has 1000 to start


I open UTG with Q Q to 20, Button 3-bets to 60, SB Cold-calls. I can 4-bet here, but I don't really want to get it all-in pre this deep. Thoughts?

SB can have ATC, Button probably has JJ+, AQ+,Axs, and maybe some suited connects he's squeezing with.


(185) Flop 7 2 6

SB donks out 40, I call, Button raises to 160. SB cold calls.

I'm not remotely worried about the SB, his range is extremely wide. The only question is does the button have me beat here? Could the Button potentially do this with something like JJ, or even TT, thinking that I'm calling light against the SB?

Not folding yet given stupid dynamic but not happy. Probably folding a blank turn to a sizable bet as much as it sucks

4bet fold pre

As played fold and see ak and 33 get to showdown

Here we have a premium hand, OOP vs. the preflop raiser, we call SB's donk OTF & now are faced with a raise from the Button. We are holding the 3rd best hand in Hold 'Em & we're not sure how to continue. We may be good, we may not. We don't know what Button's play will be OTT.
We also don't know if SB & Button are partners.

Judas Priest! We have the 3rd best hand in Hold 'Em with a legitimate reason to be uneasy about the whole situation.
You can't fold pre. You can't fold to SB's donk bet & you now have to determine if Button is swinging his Johnson with AK/JJ?

I believe you'd have to be there, in the moment, to have any chance of making the correct decision.

"It is not the player in position who wins the most money, it's the player who is in position most often." - Tommy Angelo

Fine pre. Some merit to 4-bet but I hate 4-bet folding QQ and don't really want to get it in PF with almost 200bb.

Given 3-player dynamic I probably just fold after button raise and SB cold call. To call and fold to bets on blank turns has no merit.

Might consider raising SB's donk to ~150 instead of flatting. I think you can safely shut down if button calls that. As played your line is so very underrepped.

I'd definitely 4-bet preflop with intent to isolate V1.

But V1 was not the 3-bettor. Unlikely to iso him. 4-betting gets you two folds or stacks in against button.

Reread the description of V1

pre is fine, he's 3betting a tight UTG range if he's competent

SB could easily flat pre with aces for deception then donk out small to entice a raise.

I'm raising the tiny 20% donk bet, bc if I don't do it I expect the button to do it with a wide range. But when he does and the sb calls it's a tough spot but it's going to be hard to let it go otf.

I know. Still more likely to iso him if he was the initial aggressor or 3-bettor.

What do you do if Button 5-bets?

I think we can safely fold to a 5-bet from button. I don't think he will get too out of line with V1 still to act. And I think we still get a decent amount of folds from him.

I think the benefits of getting HU in this situation vs. V1 outweigh the suckiness when we get 5-bet.

I realized after posting the threat I mistakenly forgot to put v1 as button and v2 as sb.

I screwed that one up. Sorry about it guys, I realized it made things moer confusing.

Anyway, Let's just call them by button and SB then, as I can't go back to edit. I agree that we can 4-bet here, button can fold, if SB 5-bets all-in we snap call, and we can fold to a 5-bet all-in from the Button. That's definitely not terrible.

and SB probably doesn't have a real hand here, he's range is still likely ATC. so still all options are on the table.

Bloated pot, one pair, out of position, 1 uncapped range and 1 ATC range - uncapped range raised flop (repping OP IMO) and ATC called, I'm folding here to lose a small pot.

If I flat, other than a Q what turn cards make me happy? Also I'll only have around a PSB left.

If I wasn't happy to GII pre here vs button, I'm still not, so not raising.

That leaves sigh folding IMO.

There's nothing in the OP that indicates V2 (BTN) is 3! us light. We have a "standard" image and are opening 4x UTG. There are no callers inbetween and BTN is raising 3x. His range is almost certainly KK+/AK due to reason listed and combinatorics.

SB cold calling is an absolute gift as we can now set mine and are unlikely to be c-bet bluffed on the flop 3-way with AK.

Call pre, call flop the first time around and fold to the BTN raise. He is uncapped and SB is being extremely sticky. Fold and move on there's nothing more to consider IMO.

Against this villain and yourself I just don't see villain having much of a bluffing range here. How do you think he plays 7's-QQ pre? If he's always 3 betting on the button with 99-JJ then we need to continue with the hand.

I mostly play 1/2 where the 3 bet ranges are very narrow and value heavy so I would probably find a fold but it depends on the villain and I don't think calling here is bad or incorrect. Against a younger reg type player I would be more inclined to call.

It's pretty exploitative to fold when we can not only beat bluffs, but we can beat legitimate value like 99-JJ.

Grunch

Aren't we plenty deep enough to 4!/fold pre here? That's what I would do, especially because BTN has to worry about SB possibly coming along, so flatting AA/KK here seems out of the question.

AP I guess I'm calling and folding ott un-improved.

Edit: After reading other responses I agree calling to fold ui is foolish. Fold now.

You're calling $120 more to hit a 2-outer?

Flat pre ffs and make sure the SB doesn't get squeezed out, keep the btn at least a touch wide. Call the flop the second time and ideally the turn will go ck ck jam fold call.

I'm not disagreeing with you johnny, I think what you saying is probably correct, but just for some thoughts (possibly wrong) in theory land.

In a way, if we call flop, I don't think it's necessarily to spike our miracle two outer, isn't it because in general, his flop raising range is wider than his turn betting range? Like QQ is doing better against his flop range, but does worse against his double barreling range on the turn. Hypothetically (not saying he would), he could potentially raise JJ for value on the flop, but not try to get 3 streets of value for that hand. Like do we need to worry about potentially overfolding here? His turn betting range is more polarized than his flop raising range. I know this goes a little into GTO play which doesn't really apply here.

That being said, I don't think he's going to bluff here that often. That's just getting in a d*** waving contest against the SB that's he seems competent enough to not going to do. Maybe he doing this with something like AK thinking. I'm happy to get it in against SB would has ATC, and I can put UTG in a tough spot with something like 99-JJ. On the flip slide. He might raise JJ for value here thinking I'm calling super light against the SB whose just here to eff around.

Raising the flop with JJ would be pretty terrible and severely overplaying his hand.

I don't have too much history with villain here. and I don't know what villain thinks of me. I agree raising Jacks against most villains is terrible.

Realistically though, if he does have JJ here, it looks like I have something like 99-JJ, AQ or AK when I call the lol-donk from SB. I think he might logically think with JJ, he has close to the nut pair hand, I'm not sure if he puts QQ in my range here perse, and raise. I think against some villains here, who are like "herp derp, I haz overpair, and can't fold, we should be raising JJ here for value. Granted, I don't know if villain thinks of me that way, again, these are more thoughts I'm thinking about in theory land, that probably aren't applicable here.

If you ever find yourself calling SB's donk here with AK/AQ with the uncapped 3!er still to act who 3xed your UTG open with no money inbetween then you have massive leaks.

You just never hav AK/AQ here. Those are fairly easy 4!/f or folds pre depending on your read on villain. Calling is the worst option by a wide margin, especially 200 BB's deep.

Your range vs. BTN's range is a WA/WB spot and therefore there would be no reason for him to raise JJ here. KK+ he may raise for value but JJ is firmly in the "call flop and acquire more info on the turn."

I'm not calling his lol-donk with AQ or AK, that was just me thinking about things what BTN would put in my range I would have when I call. I've seen people show up with things they're not supposed to show up with. I've seen people show up with over cards here, at least from my experiences playing.

Overall, I'm not disagreeing with you here, but I'm just thinking about possible mental excercises. I know I'm stretching here, but I like to personally explore non-standard possibilities. Thanks for all of the comments/ responses.

As played

Omg you cannot fold this hand at any point. If you gotta lose a K then lose a K but you cannot evade a showdown like you did.