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2/5 QQ Turns Fullhouse. Facing River Decision

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09-01-2017 , 06:49 AM

#51

BackDoorFlush

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 2,171

Results were posted in post 39.

Hero calls and V flips over AK.

Quote

09-01-2017 , 07:37 AM

#52

momo_uk

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

Quote:

Originally Posted by BackDoorFlush

Results were posted in post 39.

Hero calls and V flips over AK.

Sweet. Does consensus think V folds AK to a shove from Hero?

Quote

09-01-2017 , 07:40 AM

#53

Shai Hulud

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,919

Quote:

Originally Posted by momo_uk

Sweet. Does consensus think V folds AK to a shove from Hero?

No. Villain is not trapping with trip AK just to raise/fold the river IMO.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

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09-01-2017 , 09:57 AM

#54

DeathCabForTootie

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5,722

Quote:

Originally Posted by momo_uk

Sweet. Does consensus think V folds AK to a shove from Hero?

never.

Quote

09-01-2017 , 11:38 AM

#55

Tomark

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 2,819

Quote:

Originally Posted by momo_uk

Sweet. Does consensus think V folds AK to a shove from Hero?

Anyone who doesnt shove here has serious MUBS.

Quote

09-01-2017 , 11:50 AM

#56

Nippleman

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 660

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomark

Anyone who doesnt shove here has serious MUBS.

Strongly agree. I mean the arguments for not shoving here were basically that this villain might have quads. And the only other hand That beats you hear you're blocking by having both the other queens.

Quote

09-01-2017 , 12:42 PM

#57

wj294

adept

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,121

V might fold AK to a jam but you'll never find out unless you jam.

Quote

09-01-2017 , 12:46 PM

#58

Tomark

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 2,819

Quote:

Originally Posted by wj294

V might fold AK to a jam but you'll never find out unless you jam.

lets put it this way, 8 combos of AK, 1 combo of KK. Even if he plays KK this way every time (i doubt he bets flop with KK), he would only need to play AK this way and then call 1 in 8 for the shove to be neutral EV (and, notably a neutral EV river shove is beneficila from a balance perspective). Thats completely ignoring whatever other hands he could spaz with here like JT.

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09-01-2017 , 02:14 PM

#59

Tiltyjoker

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,608

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomark

Still think it's closer than you do. I don't think he always raises AK PF. And he doesn't always call a river shove with AK

Quote

09-01-2017 , 02:52 PM

#60

cicakman

banned

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9,229

Had a very similar spot to this yesterday. Might make a thread

Quote

09-01-2017 , 05:02 PM

#61

smokingrobot

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,605

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiltyjoker

:/ sigh.

No one likes $300/call or fold huh

i think largely even against old man coffee, they too eventually become impatient - maybe its time to go. Maybe they went and its time to change their Depends. Maybe they think you're a young whipper snapper always betting and **** they finally got 3 Kings... THREE! and it'll be a cold day in hell when those 3 Kings escorted by an Ace go into the muck face up etc etc.

I tend to just avoid OMC type guys and never give them action but this is a cooler.

These guys still lose set over set like the rest of us.

Quote

09-01-2017 , 05:06 PM

#62

smokingrobot

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,605

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiltyjoker

Still think it's closer than you do. I don't think he always raises AK PF. And he doesn't always call a river shove with AK

it is close as **** I 100% agree with you, but I cant just give OMCs quads simply because they're putting money in the middle (i know youre not either, im just exaggerating for narrative) see my above post - they're human and I wouldnt be surprised if their kind of mistake is perhaps magnified in close spots like this - holding a K and just assuming their tight patient pre flop play pays off on boards like this.

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09-01-2017 , 05:40 PM

#63

BackDoorFlush

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 2,171

No way this guy folds AK. He would hem and haw for 45 seconds, lament his bad luck, and toss his money in the middle.

Quote

09-01-2017 , 06:45 PM

#64

Calldown88

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 500

Lol see what I say, these weird lines look like quads only, but the answer is that villain just isn't a good player. That's why you should just shove here, missed a ton of $ by flatting. Too often on this board people give villains waaaaaay too much credit, gotta realize that we're thinking about hands on another level compared to the average dude.

Raise fold would be atrocious as it usually is. Raise then fold when he shoves AK because he's bad, gg. You lose to literally 1 combo. There are rare spots when raise fold is ok, this isn't one of them. Raising then folding here is actually much worse than just folding to the raise.

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09-01-2017 , 08:31 PM

#65

Tomark

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 2,819

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiltyjoker

Still think it's closer than you do. I don't think he always raises AK PF. And he doesn't always call a river shove with AK

I mean ok. Youre wrong, and this hand should be instructive to you in the future. You only need 51% for EV+ on river, dont fear value betting yourself so much.

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09-01-2017 , 08:45 PM

#66

CleanoutKid

adept

Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,109

I'm shoving and not giving a **** if he had Quads

Quote

09-02-2017 , 01:17 AM

#67

Dizzyqtp

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 7,382

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiltyjoker

Still think it's closer than you do. I don't think he always raises AK PF. And he doesn't always call a river shove with AK

It's not; and he's never folding AK on the river. Stop worrying about quads 140bb deep you're just going to end up missing value (aka this exact spot)

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09-02-2017 , 03:40 AM

#68

DeathCabForTootie

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5,722

Give him 1/4 of all the AK combos that take this line and you still will be better off shoving than worrying about quads.

Quote

09-02-2017 , 07:22 AM

#69

Chicagodude

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 2,810

1. Call 2. Jam 3. Fold----never

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