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2/5 QQ facing turn shove 3bet pot 2/5 QQ facing turn shove 3bet pot

08-10-2019 , 07:32 PM
$2/5 9-handed.
effective stacks: $1275.

Button straddle on. A tight female regular opens to $40 in sb, hero calls with QdQh from UTG, a semi-tight tricky mid-aged white guy 3bet $175 from UTG1, sb folds, hero calls.


Flop($400): 8h 4d 3c. hero checks, villian bets $250, hero calls.
Turn($900): 4c. Villian shoves, hero?
12 combos AA-KK, 6 combos JJ,1 combo AcKc.

Last edited by maplestar; 08-10-2019 at 07:41 PM.
2/5 QQ facing turn shove 3bet pot Quote
08-10-2019 , 08:24 PM
You're getting direct odds on a call using the range you gave Villain
2/5 QQ facing turn shove 3bet pot Quote
08-10-2019 , 11:15 PM
When you call the 3bet you are committing yourself on this run out.
2/5 QQ facing turn shove 3bet pot Quote
08-11-2019 , 12:25 AM
I don't know how you don't 3b her to begin with. I'd probably rip pre the second time if he is 100% 3b AK here and other stuff. The range you're assigning him ott just seems off bc most 'semi-tricky' players aren't just going to never bet turn with his AK but always bet JJ.
2/5 QQ facing turn shove 3bet pot Quote
08-11-2019 , 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanaplan
I don't know how you don't 3b her to begin with. I'd probably rip pre the second time if he is 100% 3b AK here and other stuff. The range you're assigning him ott just seems off bc most 'semi-tricky' players aren't just going to never bet turn with his AK but always bet JJ.
I don't 3bet QQ UTG vs EP tight range. You suggest we 4-bet backraise vs this villian 250 BB deep?
2/5 QQ facing turn shove 3bet pot Quote
08-11-2019 , 12:31 PM
We should be making our decision preflop. If we think he'll put in 250BB with JJ, then 4-bet. Plus the backraise looks fishy and I expect to get called by JJ a decent amount of the time.

If we don't, fold earlier.

Personally, I'll often just fold this pre if it's a reg lineup. In my games, a tight V isn't raising another tight V's EP open with anything less than KK. But that's only if I know they know each other and have that history.

Last edited by krilleater; 08-11-2019 at 12:36 PM.
2/5 QQ facing turn shove 3bet pot Quote
08-11-2019 , 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maplestar
I don't 3bet QQ UTG vs EP tight range. You suggest we 4-bet backraise vs this villian 250 BB deep?
You're only 125BB deep and that's important. How your opponents play straddled pots is on you, but you also went out of your way to say he has 'tricky' plays whatever that means. If everything is truly so narrow first, third, and fourth to act in a straddled pot then you have an easy ckf on the turn facing shove with just about your whole range which actually is fine if he only 1 combo of AK that bets there as you outlined. I don't buy that he's full on 3b pre with JJ and bet shoving JJ post too.

As for pre, you have an opportunity w QQ to get HU IP against a tight player. If she 4bets you then lol fold, if she calls, then play against that range, but what you do avoid is having to play post with trash relative position if others call behind. If you 3b and he 4b you next, you can still maneuver through that spot pretty cleanly depending on his sizing and ho you make up his 4bets.

All in all, you flopped an OP, but in a spot where ranges are grossly narrow strong. If you're flatting QQ it's to keep him wide enough to where he might bet shove with AK/JJ/other stuff, but I just gii once SB folds and expect him to fold pre a whole bunch.
2/5 QQ facing turn shove 3bet pot Quote
08-11-2019 , 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanaplan
You're only 125BB deep and that's important. How your opponents play straddled pots is on you, but you also went out of your way to say he has 'tricky' plays whatever that means. If everything is truly so narrow first, third, and fourth to act in a straddled pot then you have an easy ckf on the turn facing shove with just about your whole range which actually is fine if he only 1 combo of AK that bets there as you outlined. I don't buy that he's full on 3b pre with JJ and bet shoving JJ post too.

As for pre, you have an opportunity w QQ to get HU IP against a tight player. If she 4bets you then lol fold, if she calls, then play against that range, but what you do avoid is having to play post with trash relative position if others call behind. If you 3b and he 4b you next, you can still maneuver through that spot pretty cleanly depending on his sizing and ho you make up his 4bets.

All in all, you flopped an OP, but in a spot where ranges are grossly narrow strong. If you're flatting QQ it's to keep him wide enough to where he might bet shove with AK/JJ/other stuff, but I just gii once SB folds and expect him to fold pre a whole bunch.
Yup,I made a mistake in this straddled pot and played like 250BB deep stack. This villian is capable of semi-bluffing with draws on the turn based on my reads. Check/call off seems perfect vs this guy. Preflop this villian 3bet a linear range like TT+,AJ+, so flatting is probably a more +ev line as long as we call down depending on the runout.
2/5 QQ facing turn shove 3bet pot Quote
08-11-2019 , 06:29 PM
I think vs the described villain, you have to call this off and not feel great about it.

You're at the absolute top of your range here, and you also unblock AQcc (however unlikely that may be). If we give him a range of JJ+, AKs, and AKo we are going to be getting owned by folding the turn in this spot. He would have to be incapable of bluffing here, but you have reads that he is perfectly capable of doing such a thing.

I think the flop is a more interesting decision and I think we can make a strong argument to fold. I know, it feels gross to fold QQ on such a dry board. However we are getting crushed by his range and our range is pretty clearly capped. He's going to be able to exert a ton of pressure on us and make it very difficult for us to realize our equity. I think that for us to be able to call on this flop, his 3bet range would have to look like TT+, AQs+, AKo. Unfortunately most villains are probably only doing this with JJ+, AK.
2/5 QQ facing turn shove 3bet pot Quote
08-12-2019 , 09:26 AM
Seems like a value 3b pre with SB raise/fold range.

Any idea how the V views Hero, specifically do you have a fold button? Also, is he aware of the hand config – straddled pot, tight SB open into the field, followed by an EP call?

As played, I’d lean toward a call given the opponent descript. We may be able to reduce AcAx combos, leaving 3? All 16 of AK? Probably not with that turn card and 8-high board.
2/5 QQ facing turn shove 3bet pot Quote
08-12-2019 , 01:18 PM
I would def 3b pre
2/5 QQ facing turn shove 3bet pot Quote
08-12-2019 , 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by samo
Seems like a value 3b pre with SB raise/fold range.

Any idea how the V views Hero, specifically do you have a fold button? Also, is he aware of the hand config – straddled pot, tight SB open into the field, followed by an EP call?

As played, I’d lean toward a call given the opponent descript. We may be able to reduce AcAx combos, leaving 3? All 16 of AK? Probably not with that turn card and 8-high board.
Why are you reducing AcAx combos?
2/5 QQ facing turn shove 3bet pot Quote
08-12-2019 , 07:20 PM
So a tricky player is 3-betting after your "weak" call and now you are thinking about folding an OP on this board? As mentioned, due to the straddle this is a 125bb pot, not 250bb (huge difference)

Can you actually see his cards or are you projecting when you give him this extremely tight and narrow range? You are giving yourself too much credit to your amazing hand reading skills.

Call and assume to win considerably more than the odds require.
2/5 QQ facing turn shove 3bet pot Quote
08-12-2019 , 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by megamen70
Why are you reducing AcAx combos?
He would block BD clubs, so he might bet less than ~95% pot. Otherwise he might be worried about AQcc/AKcc drawing out more cheaply. Pure speculation, worth a consideration, imho.
2/5 QQ facing turn shove 3bet pot Quote

      
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