2/5 Short Handed (6 players). V1 is very capable 30's WG/Pro/Reg. We don't have too many hand histories but he likes to buy in deep and play big pots and apply pressure. Hero is also a reg/winning player and mostly viewed as tight. Perceived to fold too much, especially in bigger pots.

Hero is effective stack with $1200 and QQ UTG.

I raise to $30 and V2 (covers me) calls behind. V1 raises to $140 from SB.
He is 3 betting here very wide. In a full table I've seen him do this with as little as 88. I also know no matter what he will down bet the flop. I choose to just call to keep his range wider. Thoughts on this?

V2 calls behind as well.

Flop ($420) J83

V1 Bets $185 and I call. V2 gives a speech and folds. Folding seems way too nitty and I'm not ready to commit with this hand just yet. Reasons to raise? To how much?

Turn ($790) 5

V1 Bets $425. Hero has $875. Hero?

Is he really that wide here? Not sure about that. V2 is a problem. I’d fold turn pretty comfortably.

Imagine opening to 15-20.

Your range looks weak/capped. I have a hard time believing he’ll 3bet your UTG open with 88 type hands, but if he can have AK-QT type hands then I’d jam turn. If he’s not double barrel bluffing then fold.

Shorthanded I think it's fine to jam turn here

4b pre. Especially since he is OOP, he will hate you for this no matter what he has unless it's AA (yeah, he's pretty unhappy getting 4b with KK OOP). Also really don't think people will 5b wide here; that's pretty suicidal given positions. Also going 3-ways with bad position is meh.

If you only 4b AA or 4b nothing, which many players will do, you're the one that's going to make a lot more mistakes post.

Especially when you are IP, you need to widen your 4b/3b ranges against looser players/regs.

I see zero advantage to calling pre here, especially with the guy behind us.

Folding turn can't be too bad, but again you got into this mess by not 4-betting pre IMO. It's a 4b for value, especially this deep where people will just call anything pretty or remotely decent vs a 4b cuz "lol deep". 9-handed I can get behind a call pre if you opened first to act and he 3b from the blinds (especially the BB, BB 3b vs UTG open is almost always nutted) but UTG 6-handed vs his SB 3b when you've seen him 3b ******ed hands 9-handed, it's just a snap 4b. Don't be scared to 4b wider for value/bluffs against looser ranges IP. It's actually very hard for you to make mistakes IP in a 4b pot and a lot of times you'll just get folds.

Forgive me if I made an error with verbiage or numbers I’m a little out of practice posting about strat:

I agree with Minatorr who said you’re much better off 4B pre here. I think polarizing villains range and probably getting a fold out of V2 is good here. Once V1 makes a decision on your 4B you go to the flop with a stronger narrow on his range and a lot more information as he has to act first.

Let’s say you 4B pre and he calls and the flop is the same. He makes the same action and you call, the turn is the same and he makes the same action as IRL. So now your info is: he 3B pre and flat your 4B, he leads flop for just under half pot and after you call he leads turn for just over half pot - don’t you feel way more confident about your read, his strength of hand and (in this case) about your ability to fold your over pair? I know I do.

As played if your read is correct about him being able to be as wide as 8x8x 3B pre AND you have a tight image - I think he has a range all the way down to 3x3x in your IRL scenario but also has suited overcards in his range. Either way as described he has the ability to show up with lots of holdings here, probably a coin flip that he has you best vs semi bluffing with a flush draw. Time to cut your loses and not be a hero and fold the turn don’t give up half your stack trying to outplay another pro/semi-pro and wait to pick your moment vs a softer spot at the table

Poker would be so easy if we could be sure of these things. Too bad that's impossible to know to any degree of certainty unless we've played 100s and 100s of hours with the guy and even then if hes good and mixes it up we can never know.

This is where what everyone calls "FPS" comes in. Guys who use "FPS" can never be put on a hand and you just have to go with your gut and live with the results.

He made a similar play twice before with another player. 3bet pre, fired flop, checked turn (snap folded to a bet); 3bet pre, fired flop, fired turn and snap folded to a raise.

I think given the description of both you and V we have to call down here especially after just flatting the 3 bet

He’s applying quite a bit of pressure to ur UTG range and it’s definitely uncomfortable

Looks like it's going to be three ways to the flop if you just call... And H will have terrible position being between the 3b and the field caller.

4b pre.

He can be value betting a AJ there as well, thinking you wouldn't flat call a 3-bet with QQ+, I think you must continue given the aggressive villain + underreping your hand.

I agree with you here Minatorr, but I’m just curious of two things.

1. What do you 4! to here?
2. How much $ do you fire on the flop?

This helps explain your thoughts and motives.

Perhaps you’re allowing a strong read to lead you too far from the basic fundamentals of avoiding playing QQ oop against two Villains, even though you have relative position versus main V. But here we are.....

Is there any merit to raising this flop? V2 got a very good price to call. Main V’s sizing suggests a blocking bet.

AP: calling seems pointless so it’s jam or fold. Maybe I’ve misread his flop bet as a blocker and it could be a probe as you and V2 have all the Jacks here. I hate jamming into uncapped Villains with one pair.

But I can find a jam here mainly because of the suspicious flop bet. V prices in all draws with his sizing. I doubt a pro would do this with an overpair 3way. H jam offers 5-2 to V, which unfortunately is the correct price for AsKs. It’s a gross spot but I’m jamming it in given his read of your ability to get blown off pots.

curious about V2 speech, any kind of information, must have said something or you wouldnt have brought it up.

so far, leaning to putting it in, especially shorthanded

4! pre to a PSB with the plan of getting it all in pre and not loving life if he 5! shoves. Your 4! sizing should be $420-480 range

Honestly, he is probably squeezing hands more than you think from SB which is why 3! pre is a good strat from that spot 6 handed especially given the V2 caller and you are now in the middle. Probably doing this with TT+, all suited broadways, +ATs, A2-A5s (excluding A6-A9s) and AKo, AQo, and KQo. Or at least that's the rough idea of how I would 3! from that spot if I were V1

AP... jam the turn. Given the range I described above he has one set of Jack's you are crushed to here. Your hand QQ has no flush blockers placing many more flush draws (especially all of those suited A combos I mentioned above) into V1's range where he could be semi-bluffing a second barrel with. I tend to discredit AA and KK here due to what others mentioned above as the bet sizing on the flop. He priced all of the draws in way to heavily with the $185 bet.

IMO villain's most likely holdings on this turn are JJ, AKss, AQss, ATss, A2ss, A3ss, A4ss, A5ss, QTss, KQss (you get the picture)

He has a ton of drawing hands here and not enough nutted combos. If you were to half the Q of spades in your hand this would be a tougher decision to jam since the likelihood of him having a flush draw would decrease and him having a stronger holding would increase. Without the Q of spades I feel this jam is clearer unless my own understanding is flawed, I hope to hear feedback on this comment! Thanks as always everyone.

Minatorr........

Plzzzzz, feed me ur knowledge....

I would always 4 bet here vs this guy and 4 bet to around 400.


Post flop i'd have a few sizings depending on the board texture.
If if its real dry like 228r id prob bet 25% or so otf and shove turn.

Wet board we have around a psb left so id jam and pray that villian made a mistake preflop and calls with worse.

ha just read V3ttz3ao post and he more or less said the same thing.

3 handed in your hand. He got called twice on a board far better for his opponent’s ranges. V2 matters here.

Good lord 4b pre

2nd sentence in the 2nd post, yet completely ignored by everyone.

What is your opening range for your sizing from your position?

You said it yourself you are percieved as tight, yet V is firing away. As Johnny would say, he either has you crushed or knows you are capable of folding a one pair hand. Either way, you will lose long term.

Yep as mentioned, 4b pre to 420ish. No more than this though because we cannot have a 4b fold range.

V2 is fairly capped to 88+ KQs etc so we want to get money in the middle to get value and deny equity.

As played it's pretty reasonable for villain to be betting AJ for value which is quite a lot of combos, including all nfds, T9s etc

We simply have too much equity vs his betting range to fold so I like to shove turn.

Additionally we unblock AJ and fds so it's a pretty nice combo to jam with.

I like the flat pre as long as we are ready to either dump the hand early or go with it. I hate just calling down without ever really knowing where we are.

Flop is tough considering that he is going to cbet his entire range. The fact that he bet into two opponents makes me want to dump this hand. but I think that you do have to call a decent percentage of the time, otherwise it is way way to weak.

I would be slightly temped to turn our hand into a bluff since the 8 and J smash our 3! calling range. but depending on how sticky he is, that could just be setting money on fire.

when he bets the turn, I am done with the hand. A bet for half of our stack is soooooo valuey, it sets off all kinds of alarm bells.

but definitely not an easy hand either way.

Probably around $350-$385, keeps in weaker parts of his range. I think going too big is going to let him play better (ie fold dumb hands OOP).

Generally in 4b pots std cbet sizing is around 1/4 pot or even 1/5, depending on texture. I'd only imagine that most people react very very poorly to 1/5 psb or 1/4. I see it all the time. People already react terribly vs 1/3 sizing

^awesome, appreciate it.
I was thinking around $360-370 so glad I’m in the ballpark.
Then $250-ish OTF and autoshove turn.

But I can see what Amanaplan is saying here too. Pretty dicey spot, but I think I would get aggressive here given description of V.