Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
2/5,QQ 3bet pot on K high flop 2/5,QQ 3bet pot on K high flop

08-21-2014 , 05:43 PM
2/5nl 9-handed table in vegas.These two hands happened at different tables in a similar situation.so i post here to see how you guys handle it given stack sizes.
Hand 1:

V1 UTG($700) - passive semi-tight regular in his 40s.Haven't seen anything really out of line and no history with him.
V2 CO( $650)- fairly loose aggressive preflop and post with fishy tendencies in his late 40s.
Hero BB($550) - Young asian with TAG clean image, didnt win any big pots so far.Hero QQ.
V1 raises to $15, MP calls,V2 calls,Hero 3-bets to $85, folds to V1 who calls and V2 calls.
Flop($260):K T 3 hero? c/f,b/f or b/c.

Hand 2(must move table):
V1 MP($400) - loose passive recreational old guy.He tends to pay off light.
V2 BT( $240)- semi-loose old guy with passive tendency.
Hero BB($500) - Yougn asian with TAG ABC poker image and hasn't gotten out of line.
V1 raises to $15, V2 calls, Hero 3-bets to $75, folds to V1 who calls and V2 calls.
Flop($220):K 9 7 hero first to act? Shove,c/f,b/c or b/f.

Last edited by maplestar; 08-21-2014 at 05:55 PM.
2/5,QQ 3bet pot on K high flop Quote
08-21-2014 , 05:56 PM
Bet fold both spots. The nittier passive OMC the players are we can bet smaller say 100. If the player seems a bit better more active I guess I would say we have to bet a bit bigger like 140.

The only other move is to c/r shove to maximize FE but that will only work against very select few

I don't think I can ever check call in this spot and expect to be good.
2/5,QQ 3bet pot on K high flop Quote
08-21-2014 , 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MK7749
Bet fold both spots. The nittier passive OMC the players are we can bet smaller say 100. If the player seems a bit better more active I guess I would say we have to bet a bit bigger like 140.

The only other move is to c/r shove to maximize FE but that will only work against very select few

I don't think I can ever check call in this spot and expect to be good.
Hand 2,given two sharrow stack sizes,can we really b/f?
2/5,QQ 3bet pot on K high flop Quote
08-21-2014 , 07:51 PM
Yea. OBV Vil 1 is deep enough to do it so the question is just Vil 2.

This is where we have to off our reads. IMO old men here won't call off light even if they committed X percent of their stack if they missed. They don't have a problem playing super short stack poker. But this doesn't hold true for everyone.

But say we bet Vil 1 calls and Vil 2 shoves we are in a real pickle then but against old man passive types there aren't enough bluffs in them to make this profitable.
2/5,QQ 3bet pot on K high flop Quote
08-21-2014 , 08:01 PM
In Hand 1, checking is probably the best play to induce bluffs from V2 LAGfish and because we can only extract value from a stubborn JJ or draws if we cbet flop (V1 might fold JJ sometimes anyway to a cbet). The most likely Villain to have a draw is V2 LAGfish, and he might decide to bluff-raise our cbet with his draws. We don't want to open ourselves to a semi-bluff raise that we can't call off.

In Hand 2, 50% pot cbet is probably the best play. We can get value from JJ/TT and a variety of draws. Both players are passive, so there is no value to checking to induce bluffs. Just as importantly, we can usually bet/fold more safely against these passive Villains who are much more likely to call down draws passively instead of semi-bluffing raising with draws.
2/5,QQ 3bet pot on K high flop Quote
08-21-2014 , 08:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maplestar
2/5nl 9-handed table in vegas.These two hands happened at different tables in a similar situation.so i post here to see how you guys handle it given stack sizes.
Hand 1:

V1 UTG($700) - passive semi-tight regular in his 40s.Haven't seen anything really out of line and no history with him.
V2 CO( $650)- fairly loose aggressive preflop and post with fishy tendencies in his late 40s.
Hero BB($550) - Young asian with TAG clean image, didnt win any big pots so far.Hero QQ.
V1 raises to $15, MP calls,V2 calls,Hero 3-bets to $85, folds to V1 who calls and V2 calls.
Flop($260):K T 3 hero? c/f,b/f or b/c.

Hand 2(must move table):
V1 MP($400) - loose passive recreational old guy.He tends to pay off light.
V2 BT( $240)- semi-loose old guy with passive tendency.
Hero BB($500) - Yougn asian with TAG ABC poker image and hasn't gotten out of line.
V1 raises to $15, V2 calls, Hero 3-bets to $75, folds to V1 who calls and V2 calls.
Flop($220):K 9 7 hero first to act? Shove,c/f,b/c or b/f.
1st hand is likely a bet fold but check calling can't be bad vs someone who may bluff.

Hand 2 is totally different the SPr is far to low to ever bet fold. We are past the commitment point and should be shipping the flop. We have a guy who pays off light and a guy who calls wide pre. If they have Kx the got lucky so be it.
2/5,QQ 3bet pot on K high flop Quote
08-21-2014 , 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maplestar
2/5nl 9-handed table in vegas.These two hands happened at different tables in a similar situation.so i post here to see how you guys handle it given stack sizes.
Hand 1:

V1 UTG($700) - passive semi-tight regular in his 40s.Haven't seen anything really out of line and no history with him.
V2 CO( $650)- fairly loose aggressive preflop and post with fishy tendencies in his late 40s.
Hero BB($550) - Young asian with TAG clean image, didnt win any big pots so far.Hero QQ.
V1 raises to $15, MP calls,V2 calls,Hero 3-bets to $85, folds to V1 who calls and V2 calls.
Flop($260):K T 3 hero? c/f,b/f or b/c.

Hand 2(must move table):
V1 MP($400) - loose passive recreational old guy.He tends to pay off light.
V2 BT( $240)- semi-loose old guy with passive tendency.
Hero BB($500) - Yougn asian with TAG ABC poker image and hasn't gotten out of line.
V1 raises to $15, V2 calls, Hero 3-bets to $75, folds to V1 who calls and V2 calls.
Flop($220):K 9 7 hero first to act? Shove,c/f,b/c or b/f.
hand 1 is a B/F, but you're a little deeper here. so you have 465 eff post flop, B 165.00, looking for HU. If we get called by both we shut down on turn. If we get called by either one I think we still shut down on turn, because shoving 300 into 550 will likely still get a call from a FD, and def KT+, but that's debatable; you know the 2 villians best. If it was me and I got heads up OTT, I'd close my eyes and ship it.

hand 2 is also a B/F. If you check you give up lots of equity, and you show how exploitable you can be when you 3b oop once you fold. I think a good amount to bet here is 130, if you get flatted and the turn bricks I think it's a B/C turn too because your equity heightens after getting called on the flop, plus there's a good range of hands you still beat assuming we get heads up to the turn. I also close my eyes OTT and ship this a lot as well if it's heads up.

Both of my suggestions are obviously the high variance plays, seems neutral ev at worst. C/F turn is not bad either, esp in hand 1.
2/5,QQ 3bet pot on K high flop Quote
08-21-2014 , 09:28 PM
hand 1: bet fold $100 on flop. even against two players, you are often ahead. check calling is terrible unless villain bluffs too often and check folding is too weak and allows either player to bluff you too often

hand 2: bet fold $90 against the big stack and bet call off against the shortie.

your sizing in both hands is a little too big. you need to take into account each players stacks. i would 3bet to $75 the first hand, it narrows the field and denies set mining odds, yet gets good value on your hand. if all three call, its not the end of the world. on second hand, with a shortie in, i would 3bet to $50 or $55. for the second hand i actually want both to call but want to raise big enough to get value and set things up to stack off. $75 is way too big
2/5,QQ 3bet pot on K high flop Quote
08-21-2014 , 09:45 PM
Thanks,guys.I appreciate it.
Hand 1: hero checks,V1 regular bets $125,V2 folds,hero folds.Yup,I'm a huge nit and so weak.
Hand 2: I just shoved and snap called by shorty with K9s.
2/5,QQ 3bet pot on K high flop Quote

      
m