Hero in SB with QcQs
5 limps

Hero makes it 55 get called by UTG+2 (unknown) and MP (Loose & high bluff rate)

Flop 9sKsTs

Checks all around

(first question should we be betting here? )

Turn 9c

Lead for 85 called by both players

River 10c

Check, Check, MP player bets 220

What do you do?

Stacksizes would be a good starting point before anybody can make any reasonable comment regarding any decision point.

Also more detailed descriptions of villains in the hand+their tendencies would give people more to work with, and the odds of you getting better/more informed posts and advice is alot higher.

Petrucci thanks for advice.

UTG+2 just sat down on table - older gentleman played previous hands with limp and call raise. - He just bought in for 600

MP - Has shown 63o, J6s, K9o, 8To has opened 35% of hands, has limp called everytime. has a bluff frequency of about 60% on turn and rivers. Has checked nuts several times on river, has also floated OOP with two overs many times. Basically your spot at the table... He actually has 1400 behind

Hero has 750

No problem.

Okay, so we are like 600 deep with UTG+2 and 750 effective with spazzy MP. We have second pair to the board, with draws that are not nutted.

I think checking is fine on the flop. We are out of position against 2 other opponents,and this board smash the ranges these guys limp-calls a 55 raise with pre. All kind of strong hands is out there. Dont really like our turnbet either, as we are building a bigger pot out of pos not having any clue where we are in the hand, and we can also likely be raised off our equity if either villain decides to raise our turnbet. Basically i am trying to get to showdown here without building too big of a pot that things go out of control+ i am looking to bluffcatch spazz from MP villain.

As played though when we make second nutflush on the river i think we have to call spazzy MP villains riverbet when its checked to him due to description of him being very bluffhappy.

I players are loose and straightforward I prefer betting small on most streets. If they are more apt to be aggro I prefer check calling lines.

AP fold river.

But don't bet turn. Not only was the flop bad for you, but turn was worse as any random 9x also improved. River call is spew imo.

I like the hand as played on all streets and am folding the river 80+% of the time. Will call occasionally with soul read but very probably a loser. Any 9, 10, K, QJ, AA or spades beat you. Pretty thin.

We missed the flush OTR, needed a not a

I think I just bet this flop. We have good equity except versus the made nut flush or nut straight and if we are raised we can potentially let it go.

AP, I think the river is a clear fold. Just too many ways to be beaten here IMO.

Correct missed the flush on river.

Great info.

I tanked for 2 mins trying to get a read and going through what combos I beat. I only came up with random bluff (possible with this guy) and As hands. I eventually call he shows JhTd. At the table after call I kept thinking I should bet flop, check turn, check call small river bet. I bet turn thinking I am charging both players to hit flush and any draws, value betting any T or JJ hands and will find out if they have a 9 as I would expect a raise. Getting value owned with any K, QJ (unlikely since I have blockers),made flush felt unlikely as only AJs is really in play ok maybe 87s. I still think I was better off folding river no doubt - went for soul read. thanks for replies.

If you don't think villain has many bluffs, then this is not a good call in the long term, but I guess you know that already.

I wanted to check with your alternative line of bet, x/c, x/c. What does this achieve. If you are betting QQs here, I imagine for value and equity denial, what bluffs do you have here to offset this? What other value hands do you do this with that raised pre?

We have the 2nd nut flush draw and the nut flush draw also fits into a good percentage of our range, what merit is there to charge others to draw to a flush? We want them to make their weaker flushes and bet into us. Regarding a straight draw, if you were holding a straight on a monotone board, how do you feel about your hand? Even if you make a straight, don't you believe a straight here is essentially a bluff catcher? Though it certainly is much stronger than QQ and can get value from sets.

As played, I think it is ok to occasionally mix in a bet here with QQs, but our hand performs best as a bluff catcher with some redraw equity. Certainly by the river, the only hand we are beating is AsJ, Asx QTs or T8s. I guess you can make a case that MAYBE if we just fold all our QQ in this situation our opponent can bluff us with all their missed straight draws. If we call all our QQ we are definitely value owning ourselves. So you may make a case that QQs is the only QQ we call in this situation. I don't think this call is that bad, I certainly think we can check call 1 street with Qs if we believe they will barrel with missed straights to balance their boats, but if we only assign them Asx, we absolutely cannot call.