$2/5 10-handed.
effective stacks: $1000(V1) and $900(V2).

V1 limps UTG, 2 limpers in between,V2 raises $30 on BT,hero 3bets to $100 with QdJd in sb, V1 flat calls,V2 calls.

V1(UTG)- Semi-loose mid-aged WG who is a regular in the room. I saw him cold call 3bet with ATs last week and slowplay flopped Top two. He definitely raises AQs+,TT+ from UTG and limps/reraises with AK and big pairs sometimes.

V2 (BT) - A young Asian kid who raises garbage a lot preflop.

Hero(SB) - TAG nitty image.


Flop($300): Td 9s 4c.

Hero bets $150,
V1 quickly calls. V2 folds.

Turn($600): Qh
Hero checks, V1 checks

River($600): 5c
Hero?
Do we check/call or make a thin bet?

$135 pre; $100 is way too small. This is a board that we want to bet bigger - go $200 on the flop. River is a x-c, hardly any worse hands can call a river bet.

+1
Pre is way to small OOP I’ve been taught that people are going as much as 5x out of the SB because of the disadvantage we face post
I feel like he was would value own himself / bluff here more often than calling with worse

More pre as other's have said, ~150. You're giving people good odds to play against you in position. I might size my c-bet a bit differently. If these guys are loose, they have a lot of Tx/9x combos, top two, and maybe even some 87o hands. I like a downbet a bit more. Turn check's fantastic. OTR, yeah, I'd go for value. Maybe $200-250.

What is a downbet?

This isn't the right board texture to be down betting. What hands are you targeting otr?

AK2 is the wrong texture to be downbetting. On T94r if we look at nut advantage, we can have 6 sets and maybe 1 combo of 2p. There are 2 T9s left, and we're not always 3b it. Straight draws, we have 4 QJs and maybe 2 87s.

UTG who bets TT+ pre can have 6 sets as well. He might have some T9s in his calling range, so as many 2p as us... maybe more if he's feeling hot with T9o. He could have QJo as well, so more draws to the nuts than us.

BTN, the Asian LAG, can have 9 sets. More than us. He can have T9o as well as suited, so more 2p than us. He can have QJo and maybe even some 87o, so more ways to make nuts than us.

What we have going for us are all the overpairs. They give us an equity advantage, however, it's harder for us to come up with more nutted hands than the opposition. Therefore, we can bet a lot to get value from worse, like random Tx garbage, but we shouldn't get carried away with our sizing because when lots of money goes in, there are more ways for us to be behind than ahead. As another poster said a week or two ago: range advantage, bet often. Nut advantage, bet large.

___

On the river, I'm targeting Tx, like T with broadway kicker will bluff catch a small bet. He could have Q8s/Q7s garbage too. Some 9x and 66-88 could call us off too, putting us on AK or something.

So we down bet like $75 vs two loose ranges without nut advantage? How can we generate fold equity this way if they can both call with ease? Do we follow through and double barrel on good turn cards unimproved? As to river sizing, how about we make the same bet like $150 on this river?

Why do you want to generate fold equity? I mean, I get in this instance we want to take the pot down OTF, but what about when we have an overpair here, or a set? Would we argue that we bet larger because we wanted a fold?

When you decided to run a bluff into two loose ranges without a nut advantage, what was your plan? What will 1/2 pot here fold out that 1/3 wouldn't?

With $100 OTF here, we get all sorts of weak pairs & draws continuing. Our sets/overpairs/T-good kicker get value from all of that. Our bluffs, like our excellent OE with 2 overs and BDFD here and hands like AJs/KJs with backdoors give themselves a great price on a bluff with more stackdepth to maneuver later. All cards higher than a T OTT are better for us. When we get this HU OTT, we have a good shot of folding out all Tx and lower later on. With this particular holding, we can continue firing on all diamonds, all 8s, Ks, & As. All J/Q give us top pair which we can check back since we've got SDV, like we did here.

Do you down bet with overpairs on two tone wet flop like Td 9c 5c? I think we don't have to balance out range vs loose unbalanced live players. They will call our cbet with any piece of the flop regardless of sizing putting us on AK. I like downbet with bluffs and large cbet with overpairs and TPTK.

I answered that I'd also downbet our value hands. BUT, if you think that you're getting called by worse with a large bet, then that's fine, bet big. I do think you're underestimating bad player's awereness of flop sizing though. They notice... they won't always respond correctly, but it's easy to pick up on someone betting big for value and small with bluffs. If I wanted to use a larger sizing, I'd bluff much less, like maybe with just my 4 combos of QJs. If we don't have many bluffs, then bet big with them too since you don't need to give them a good price. If you want FE go over 1/2 pot. I guess it's that sizing I have the biggest issue with. You can have a good strat betting large as well as small. I was just arguing for smaller, thinking it'd be better since these guys are more nutted than us & we're acting into them.

I just don't see this as a board we should bet every time. I'm personally checking my AK/AQ type hands here. I know there are no "rules," but for the most part bet sizes have an inverse relationship with the frequency in which we bet. This is also one of the more wet rainbow boards.

I don't mind the thin, small value bet here, but personally prefer x-c and bluff catching.

AP easiest check in the world.

Pre is a call.

Also, bet turn.

Why don't you like 3 betting pre?

Hand plays great as a call. V2 ain’t folding. V1 has l/4bets. This is FR live so having some SB calls is legit.

As for your river comment upthread: worse can certainly call when we bet, but more worse likely bets when we check.

As much as I hate playing passively from SB, the idea that V2 is never folding makes enough sense to just flat.

I said to x-c river, but was saying to QS it's probably not the worst thing to go for a small value bet.

I like a thin value bet unless you know V is capable of bluff/raising, which most aren't. I'd go $200 to target Ts and maybe 9s.

If there is any way he can bluff/raise or if he will most likely take a stab at it, just check/call.

Would not 3! pre, if I do I would go at least 4x. I would only cb flop if we plan to barrel a decent amount of turns and potentially rivers. I don't like the spot/our line at all though. You make v sound pretty bad and likely to call with worse so thin value otr ap is probably fine.

I'd check river to a semi-loose opponent with the intention of calling a reasonable bet.

Pre - going for the dead $ is good given the BTN range … larger sizing as others have said.

I think villain's range is pretty much capped at just one pair... he's not taking this pot control line with two pair, sets, straights, etc.

We can also rule out AA and KK, given the preflop action, and we can rule out JJ, given we have blockers.

So his range is a lot of draws, with some one pair hands... and we beat a lot of one pair hands, outside of KQ and AQ. But he probably raises AQ preflop. We also block a lot of draws, and there's no flush draw, so I think it's safe to assume he has SOME showdown value and can consider calling a bet.

I like a bet of $220 on the river, with the intention of obviously folding to a raise.

3b pre is rly bad if you’re choosing that sizing, you’re not generating much FE and you’re just bloating a pot deep oop vs some splashy guy with q high.

Needs to be at least $130.

Ap i check again vs a guy who raises too much garbage pre

Preflop 3bet is ok vs BT who raises way too much and we don't want to play this hand in the worst relative and absolute position. Its just like my sizing is too small to generate preflop fold equity. V2(BT) already folded on the flop. As played, I checked river and V1 showed ATs. I really need to make these thin value bets in the future and boost my win rate above 10BB per hour..

Sigh

Yeah, that's the problem. Not the 3-bet itself.

Ran the hand through PIO, it actually bets the river near 100% frequency. Makes sense, and a lot of people would station pairs here since our line doesn't make too much sense. Well, at least exploitatively. We should have a lot of TP hands here OTT. I also think people do not bluff-raise optimally so we should def be v-betting this.

PIO prefers 2/3 vastly to any other sizing otf. So

2/3 vs 1/2 vs 1/3 vs check:

48% vs 13% vs 12% vs 25%.

Turn was actually perfect, made sense to check our weaker Qx and protect our x range, and we don't get 3 streets. Hand also has a lot of playability and we don't want to get raised, card is better for IP, etc. PIO checks 100% freq basically ott

We're 3 way OTF, so solvers aren't as helpful, but I am interested in check & bet frequencies. Also, what does it like bluffing with aside from QJs?