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2/5 is this preflop spew, thin value, or totally standard? 2/5 is this preflop spew, thin value, or totally standard?

11-22-2017 , 12:55 PM
Utg is a total donk who's been catching some cards. Saw him get all in preflop with 62s for $225 and later all in preflop for $245 with 34o. He bought in for 2x the max buyin and no one said anything obviously. He ran up the initial 2k buyin to like 3k before those awful hands. He also folded JJ preflop for $300 somehow because he had a read that someone else had a higher pair

BB is a reg who plays too loose pre but decently enough post to maybe be marginally profitable. He's definitely on the laggy side. He also drinks, sometimes way too much but tonight not a lot. There was a big confrontation at the table involving Bb and another player earlier that almost turned violent but it cooled down somewhat. No one seemed titled by the heated argument

My image should be a tag, if anything too weak/tight/predictable/nitty or at least straightforward, but that's due to me being utterly card dead for the last week. I've played roughly 20 hours the last few days and had aces exactly once. I'm definitely on the tight side but not afraid to push the envelope for thin value if it's there. Problem is, I keep looking down at k7o with three limps in front of me so I can't really do much. No big deal, I'll run better eventually, not letting it get me down. But I probably look super weak/tight to anyone who's paying attention.

Utg covers the table
Hero has $400
Bb has $1200

Utg raise to 20, one caller, folds to hero who 3! to $75 with AKs from the CO, folds to bb who hasn't acted yet and 4! to $200, utg folds, caller folds, hero shoves, bb calls

No brainer shove for hero, but I'm wondering what your range would be to do what bb did? He might see me as trying to iso the fishy utg and trying to pick up the caller and blind dead money. I think bb was spewing a bit when he showed up with 99 but maybe it's +ev after all. I guess my 3! Range here would be sort of wide, but I think with smaller pairs I'd just try to setmine. I'd maybe 3! 77-88 but anything smaller for me would just be a call and try to setmine, then I'd do it with maybe A8s+, kts+ and that's about it. If bb thinks I'd do this with smaller suited connectors does it make it +ev? I just feel like you're way over playing 99 here, but I also get that folding is probably kinda weak, and calling is even worse. For me I'd probably just muck the 99 pre and wait for a better spot but it could be weak. Meh, can't be that bad of a mistake facing a 3! From a tag

Also is a button straddle a sign of a bad player? Seems like a few of the good players in the game straddle every button. They always play at least 200bb deep if that matters which I'm sure it does but not sure if that makes it +ev from their standpoint. The blinds seem to play really loose even with bad position and extra money to call pre.
2/5 is this preflop spew, thin value, or totally standard? Quote
11-22-2017 , 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buccofan86
Utg is a total donk who's been catching some cards. Saw him get all in preflop with 62s for $225 and later all in preflop for $245 with 34o. He bought in for 2x the max buyin and no one said anything obviously. He ran up the initial 2k buyin to like 3k before those awful hands. He also folded JJ preflop for $300 somehow because he had a read that someone else had a higher pair

BB is a reg who plays too loose pre but decently enough post to maybe be marginally profitable. He's definitely on the laggy side. He also drinks, sometimes way too much but tonight not a lot. There was a big confrontation at the table involving Bb and another player earlier that almost turned violent but it cooled down somewhat. No one seemed titled by the heated argument

My image should be a tag, if anything too weak/tight/predictable/nitty or at least straightforward, but that's due to me being utterly card dead for the last week. I've played roughly 20 hours the last few days and had aces exactly once. I'm definitely on the tight side but not afraid to push the envelope for thin value if it's there. Problem is, I keep looking down at k7o with three limps in front of me so I can't really do much. No big deal, I'll run better eventually, not letting it get me down. But I probably look super weak/tight to anyone who's paying attention.

Utg covers the table
Hero has $400
Bb has $1200

Utg raise to 20, one caller, folds to hero who 3! to $75 with AKs from the CO, folds to bb who hasn't acted yet and 4! to $200, utg folds, caller folds, hero shoves, bb calls

No brainer shove for hero, but I'm wondering what your range would be to do what bb did? He might see me as trying to iso the fishy utg and trying to pick up the caller and blind dead money. I think bb was spewing a bit when he showed up with 99 but maybe it's +ev after all. I guess my 3! Range here would be sort of wide, but I think with smaller pairs I'd just try to setmine. I'd maybe 3! 77-88 but anything smaller for me would just be a call and try to setmine, then I'd do it with maybe A8s+, kts+ and that's about it. If bb thinks I'd do this with smaller suited connectors does it make it +ev? I just feel like you're way over playing 99 here, but I also get that folding is probably kinda weak, and calling is even worse. For me I'd probably just muck the 99 pre and wait for a better spot but it could be weak. Meh, can't be that bad of a mistake facing a 3! From a tag

Also is a button straddle a sign of a bad player? Seems like a few of the good players in the game straddle every button. They always play at least 200bb deep if that matters which I'm sure it does but not sure if that makes it +ev from their standpoint. The blinds seem to play really loose even with bad position and extra money to call pre.
I like your shove versus described player. I would probably fold 99 vs you/your stack size if I were him instead of 3 betting. My 3! range vs how you described yourself from the sb would be JJ+, AKs, AKo, and maybe very occasionally some other random hands that likely have good equity versus an LP raiser (T9s-87s, QJ, QT, etc.). Big prob here is your stack size as any 3! to $200 is going to get shoved on by you when you have solid values so I would not make this play in this spot with anything other than JJ+, AKs, AKo.
2/5 is this preflop spew, thin value, or totally standard? Quote
11-22-2017 , 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorn7
I like your shove versus described player. I would probably fold 99 vs you/your stack size if I were him instead of 3 betting. My 3! range vs how you described yourself from the sb would be JJ+, AKs, AKo, and maybe very occasionally some other random hands that likely have good equity versus an LP raiser (T9s-87s, QJ, QT, etc.). Big prob here is your stack size as any 3! to $200 is going to get shoved on by you when you have solid values so I would not make this play in this spot with anything other than JJ+, AKs, AKo.
I think you mis read the hand

Utg opened, one caller, I 3! From CO, bb cold 4! With 99

Thats the decision I'm questioning which I think is marginal at best
2/5 is this preflop spew, thin value, or totally standard? Quote
11-22-2017 , 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buccofan86
I think you mis read the hand

Utg opened, one caller, I 3! From CO, bb cold 4! With 99

Thats the decision I'm questioning which I think is marginal at best
Ah yes sorry I did mis-read. And I wouldn't call it marginal, I would call it awful especially given his image (if he is even aware of it).
2/5 is this preflop spew, thin value, or totally standard? Quote
11-22-2017 , 05:07 PM
Is UTG raising these crap hands or just calling them off? If he is raising them consistently then your 3-bet range should be very wide, even wider than you suggested and he is fine 4-betting 99, although flatting to keep the whale in may be better (does the whale even fold to a cold 4-bet often?)
2/5 is this preflop spew, thin value, or totally standard? Quote
11-23-2017 , 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorn7
Ah yes sorry I did mis-read. And I wouldn't call it marginal, I would call it awful especially given his image (if he is even aware of it).
I don´t think his image matters at all.
It´s more a point of how wide he thinks Hero is 3betting the incredibly loose opener.
Loose 4betting image or not, Hero is not continuing with KJ/KQ/KJ type of hands. Might fold much better hands than that as well.

I think it´s fine.
2/5 is this preflop spew, thin value, or totally standard? Quote
11-24-2017 , 02:18 AM
BB cold 4! GII for 80 blinds vs presumably a weak/tight player according to OP's description is absolutely terrible. It's one thing to adjust to a player if he opens up his game, but if I'm on the button with 99 and I haven't seen the CO do anything the prudent play is absolutely to just fold. Sure, it sucks, but we expect to get called and then are just praying for a flip. This is also not taking in to account the other players left to act, which makes it even worse.

Remember, if the BB makes this play he is doing it against the *perceived* range of our hero. You can't just give the BB information he doesn't have to justify the action.

Last edited by Kraitok; 11-24-2017 at 02:23 AM.
2/5 is this preflop spew, thin value, or totally standard? Quote
11-24-2017 , 07:06 AM
His cold 4! with 99 is terrible.
2/5 is this preflop spew, thin value, or totally standard? Quote
11-24-2017 , 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BackDoorFlush
His cold 4! with 99 is terrible.
assuming OP desc's are correct its bad

But V' is trying to isolate OP and only has to worry about risking 33% of his stack, Maybe his read of OP differs from the TAG desc OP gave himself.

then again UTG raised to $20 and unless V' has a read on him
yes he's always calling your shove but what's he going to do if UTG shoves before you ?
2/5 is this preflop spew, thin value, or totally standard? Quote
11-24-2017 , 11:26 AM
75 pre is a very bad size and way too small
2/5 is this preflop spew, thin value, or totally standard? Quote
11-24-2017 , 11:46 AM
90 pre minimum. Don’t understand what’s the point of the thread, sure 99 wasn’t played well but who really cares.
2/5 is this preflop spew, thin value, or totally standard? Quote
11-25-2017 , 08:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wck117
90 pre minimum. Don’t understand what’s the point of the thread, sure 99 wasn’t played well but who really cares.
OP saw a guy cold 4! 99 pre. He wants to know if it's a good strategy in LLSNL. The answer is no. Stacks are too short and 3!s are too strong.
2/5 is this preflop spew, thin value, or totally standard? Quote

      
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