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Old 03-10-2020, 10:27 AM   #1
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2/5: Preflop OOP spot

This is a general question I have that I can apply to a specific situation I had in a super low pressure situation.

Lately on this forum or when I watch some vlogs of Andrew Neeme or JohnnyVibes it just seems assumed that if we are deep enough then we can justify calling 3 bets with just about our entire raising range even OOP, but this just doesn't seem profitable to me.

For a specific situation:

Villain ($1200): reasonably decent player for the stakes but not a crusher. More value heavy when he 3! but mixes in some light 3! here and there.

Hero ($1000): has somewhat of a TAG image.

OTTH.... Hero raises in MP to $20, folds to Villain OTB who 3! to $65. Folds back to hero, hero?

I want to fold my ATo, J9s, and 65s kind of hands and maybe even some either suited connectors as I just don't see them as profitable but based on what I see in this forum and from the vloggers it seems ridiculously nitty.

What parts of your range are you folding here after raising in MP based on these sizings and stack depth?
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Old 03-10-2020, 10:52 AM   #2
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Re: 2/5: Preflop OOP spot

I wouldn’t count on vloggers to give sound theory advice that often. Not commenting specifically on Neeme or Vibes, but I don’t think that’s the purpose of vlogs. They want views, they don’t necessarily want to make everyone better, and even if they did, I wouldn’t just blindly accept their theory as true.
As for your specific question, against a player with a perceived value heavy 3! range I think I would peel a flop with the 65s and maybe the J9s, but basically never with the A10o because you’re so crushed by a huge part of his 3! range.
I count on being able to steal a lot of pots from my opponents that are scary for hands like OP’s, etc. though and if you aren’t doing this you’re probably better off just mucking all of these speculative hands. This is somewhat player dependent. You have to pay attention to how they play their 3! value hands to see which way is best to exploit them.
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Old 03-10-2020, 10:59 AM   #3
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Re: 2/5: Preflop OOP spot

vloggers are like effectively reality tv poker.

it's also in their best interest to not make the poker community better.

ATo, J9s i'd probably ditch. 65s at least doesn't have reverse implied odds from hitting a card and getting value owned. 200bb deep i might see a flop with it, even OOP, but it would be villain dependent.
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Old 03-10-2020, 11:10 AM   #4
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Re: 2/5: Preflop OOP spot

As stated by other posters poker vloggers is displaying alot of fishy plays/fish logic in their vlogs, for x amount of reasons. So they should definetely not be taken without a huge grain of salt.

Calling 3 bets OOP is something you should do with caution. Be aware of stacksizes (dont peel too much if not deep), what kind of villain you are up against (i would defend less against winners/solid regs cause it sucks playing OOP against solid opponents), table dynamics, your own range and vilains likely 3 bet range.

Assuming i am 100 BB deep i belive we should fold all 3 example hands to the 3 bet when we are OOP. A10 off i am always folding to a 3 bet, reverse implied Deep (200 blinds+) i would start to defend 65s and J9s at some frequenzy if the 3 bet sizing isnt very big so we get okay odds to defend.
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Old 03-10-2020, 01:10 PM   #5
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Re: 2/5: Preflop OOP spot

Generally, I'd continue with: T9s+/A5s/A4s/55+.
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