V1 is shortstack tilted rec player. He has $75

V2 is a decent reg who I know plays 5/10 regularly but not much history with hero. He seems TAG and not crazy out of one but def aggro. He has $690.

Hero is probably perceived as tag, and is currently winning. Covers.

Preflop, V1 limps UTG, V2 raises to $25 from UTG+2, hero calls $25 with TcTd from UTG+3, 2 callers btn and sb, V1 ships for $75, V2 raises to $215, hero?

Muck.it

wow sick spot

He looks like he wants to isolate the guy on tilt, but he bet a third of his stack, is he folding to a jam?

Probably cry and muck it. Would love to jam but I don't think he's folding, and we're probably not that far ahead if at all and don't wanna flip for stacks either. We flatted the first time around which widens our range anyway.

If it makes the decision any clearer. V1 is shipping close to 100% and V2 is definitely astute enough to realize that

Boy that's a lot of money in the pot and we have TT... I probably rip it here


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Looks like value sizing, I'd fold.

I would have 3-bet/folded $85, as it looked like V2 might be isoing the shorty.

Super close, but I would fold. If I had JJ, then I'd probably stuff it in.

At the table I was only considering folding or shoving, but is there a case to be made for flatting here?

nope not really

This is confusing. Do you mean that when we flat the 25 we know the V1 will ship? Or do you mean that if V1 wants to play this hand, he will ship 100% of his range?

Either way, I think if we want to play this hand (especially once a tilted SS player limps), I prefer a raise the first time to 75 ourselves (or just fold). I don't like trying to setmine when we don't know what our final price will be. So let's decide if we are ahead of V2's range before we call the 25. If yes, let's take the SS out, if no, just fold.

Min raise

Probably accomplishes nothing?

I think he reacts the same with his entire range to both bet sizings.

Probably, but at the very least we get to see his hand first at showdown. But also, as wonky as it seems, it certainly looks like things went exactly as we planned PF with the short stack dynamic. It also at least allows for him to make a mistake in the hand albeit a small one.

Wonky is an understatement

I meant after he limps and then there is a raise to $25 he ships 100% of what he limped with

Then I definitely suggest raising to 75 (or whatever covers him) ourselves if we want to play.

^ why? Let's say I raise to 75, he calls, then V2 goes $275 now what?

AI

Fold. Really do not like jamming here since we aren't really repping much and i think v2 will realise this. His range is also uncapped even though it's a good spot for him to iso the jam.

If you know UTG is jamming a lot in this spot, have you thought about exploitatively minraising UTG2's open to 50 so that when it goes around to UTG who jams at a high frequency you will have option to rejam? Seems like the best play in this spot if UTG is jamming here light at a high frequency.

No way folding> Jamming. This guy knows the whale is jamming super wide and there is soo much money in the middle. He is proably raising 88+, AQs+. Its a fist pump shove

Because you have taken shorty out of the equation, you now know that V2 has a stronger range, he is willing to play this hand for your stack. He is not simply ISOing the shorty, you can now judge how TT stacks up against his true 4 bet range. Obviously his range is wider when ISOing shorty, but this seems to be giving you trouble, by raising yourself, you force him to play straight up against you.

As you pointed out, setmining went out the window when he raised to 25, since shorty will shove his whole range. Your decision point is then, not when he reraises shorty. If you are ahead of V2's range, raise it yourself, otherwise fold to the 25. Of course, you can change your idea of his range when he 4 bets you, that's what ranging is for.

+1.