its pretty insane you think this is standard pre lol

people are so cynical, sheesh, it's just a game if you don't want to gamble don't gamble, we aren't entitled to win at poker

no I don't like folding 100% of the time pre, 4bet has to be profitable here but we are pretty deep and it's close to the line. pretty sure i get enough folds to 4bet here a LOT, if I had K6o I might try a 4bet here, any ace is a snap 4 bet, I actually have a value hand here. My range to flat is probably 33-55 and AA/KK/QQ to balance but nobody knows that but me and my range to 4bet is KTo with a bunch of other hands mixed in

33 has no blockers so i think call is fine, fold is fine, 3bet is fine, it's a close spot pre but having a tough spot post is no excuse to fold imo

tough spots post flop are why we post ITF and I don't mind them anyway, I'm not here for the glory, I play for fun and profit but fun is better

hero calls

(500)

river K

I think your read here is pretty good. The posting ranges of op’s, myself included, tend to be polarized between coolers and humble brags with some legitimate strategy questions mixed in for balance. We know this can’t be a cooler and given the line hero has taken in this post, he’s likely unbalanced toward humble brags.

This is high level posting. We need more of this.

I don't get the pun

...hero checks, v1 bets 350

it's not a brag thread, but i don't mind a few brag threads sprinkled in with our legit strat threads

sigh, i think i'm posting pretty good honest advice here but people get sticks up their ass in 2p2, most of the people I play with are extremely nice, so i dunno why this forum skews mean, i mean can't you at least make it funny? ChrisV seemed to at least try to make it funny even tho he got lazy and posted seemingly unrelated pics. If I troll you I promise it will at least be chuckle-worthy

as usual, I disagree with nits being nits and don't fold nearly as much as the forum PF, but at least this isn't a "how to play the nuts" PAHWM

yea come-on you nits
so I called a 5-bet with 8-4 offsuit
no way I'm letting these guys bully me and take my small blind.

I will defend with any two cards

action back on us

board reads 246TK

350 to win 850, what's this guy up to?

Is he smart enough to know that the K hits his range and he can represent it?

You double block 35.

Maybe he has AK and he got there.

Can you turn your hand into a bluff?

In game I probably let this go on the turn and move on (auto pilot mode) but now we are here on the river. The problem is he could have anything here including the effective nuts. (sets)

I think it is possible that he has an AQ/AJ type hand and now that cards came that hit his range he is trying to rep it. You have a bluff catcher.

This would be a villain dependent read.

When I'm in auto pilot mode in these spots I am between a call and fold. Lately I have been including raise in my thought process and finding some spots to check raise bluff rivers and turns.

I am curious to know what this Villain had.

or you level yourself into thinking you are picking off his bluff when in fact you paid off his value bet

I would rather C/C here than lead
If I'm not folding give him a chance to bluff

But looking at the result alone isn't the way we want to view it.

It could be a value bet, it could be a bluff.

What percentage of the time is it a bluff?

What type of hands is he bluffing with here?

What value hands does he have here?

Is he the type of player that will value bet QQ-JJ here? (Assuming he could check those hands on flop. If he isn't capable of that we can take those hands out)

All these questions we have running through our mind come down to our best estimate of percentages.

But those are just our estimation of the percentages, there is no way of knowing what the true bluffing frequency is.

I love poker.

of course we can't know his bluffing frequency but it's going to be high i think, like i think he will bluff every single time he doesn't have a hand...just some tells that come about when people start getting impatient

on the other hand this is probably right around his value sizing with a big hand, but i can't figure out what big hand that could be, if he backs into top pair, does he bet this size?

polarized...

seems like call fold and raise are still about equal

also note that he could be turning a better hand into a bluff like, say, 6x

FWIW, i often call pre here, sometimes raise, sometimed fold. I think calling is skewed to pp, and this flop is favorable enough to donk. Your range pf should be most pp though capped (qq+ reraises), and a few Ax suited skewed to bdway. I think on flop i fire 150-200 hope to take it down, if called u may be in check / fold mode depending on subsequent cards / action.

33 really is set mining / bluff catching not value, but with them so wide, and muti way bluff catching is unlikely.

With that flop, you may have picked up some outs (non club fives, but I actually wouldnt love hitting a set on subsequent streets). You could easily rep an overpair like 99 so i donk, and hope to take it down. So try to realize equity now and end it.

So while I may be bluffing with the best hand on the flop - and not the strategy I wanted with the call, this board lends itself to that, but i basically done at that point...

Hopefully thats coherrent...

That makes me sad. It's such a good pun.

As for the hand, I'm in the fold pre camp. I might raise sometimes with a solid, tight image, but I'm not a fan of flatting this hand from this position.

I think the place to take a stab is the turn. They can't be too strong, and you could have a lot of hands you were waiting to check/raise. In game I probably would have checked, too, though. I don't mind the call of $100 on the turn. Again, he shouldn't be too strong. The river is an in-game live read situation. Leading yourself might have been interesting, but I think the time had passed for that.

I agree that calling isn't such a bad play since I have premium pairs I want to flat call with here and I really have to have a pocket pair to profitably flat imo, so flatting 33-55 balances my range fine

yeah, I think leading the flop is better, it's a nut flop for me

and, yeah I think i played way too passively on the turn, maybe a check raise there is good, probably not such a great call spot and leading or check raise is better, I'm already too passive here I think

I like my line overall as long as I'm bluff catching the river but I butchered everything after the call pre so maybe not a great idea this time

Result: Hero tank folds and gets shown the 8

It seems to me if they show one unimportant card, the other card either matches it or matches something on the board, so I highly doubt your 33 was good. Yes, raising might have gotten him to fold, but that's hindsight talking.