There’s nothing remotely hero call about this. Utilize population reads, live reads, SPR and your relative hand strength vs. the board. There’s more than enough info in the OP to call this off and feel fine.

Just fold and move on. You're almost never good here. Or you can call and post on 2+2 every other day about how crazy variance is in poker and how you can never play enough hands to reach your true win rate.

7 outta 7 said that more times than not, it’s a fold

How often do we get 7 outta 7 to agree in here? Rarely

Next time maybe I’ll wait for 8...

#MicDrop

And the majority of this forum is terrible. Buyer beware.

Mike - you're posting threads on how to play top 2 vs. a 40 and 80 BB stack. You have zero understanding of math, combos and frequencies. You are a lost cause.

This is hands down one of the dumbest things you have ever posted. I will patiently wait for you to describe how you ended up at the 10% number you pulled out of your ass.

I said "maybe 10%". Ive played and watched 100s of these big multiway all ins and I'm qualified to give an estimate of how often TT is the best correct hand. If you dont want to listen to my estimate, dont listen to it. I couldnt care less.

Im not going to argue with a troll anymore. Your opinion means less than zero to me.

Cant really fault a fold too much on this texture with only 20% invested. Against a reasonable gii range, hero can not count on having enough equity.

I would not describe as a hero call. Its a marginal or light call. Hero implies a much weaker hand.

Hero call was definitely an overstatement. What I meant was I would imagine a solver/snowie would fold here. We are probably exploitatively over-calling if we call here and people tend to be under-bluffing these spots. I’m not 100% on this but that would be my guess.

I'm snap folding and looking away so I don't see that these maniacs didn't have anything and calling could have made me money. It sucks but you're losing money here so often unless runner runner straight comes through to save you.

Gross fold, you can easily be crushed here and optimistically at most you aren't that far ahead. Getting a bad price as well. Also definitely think flop bet needs to be closer to 100 than 70. It's wet AF

So you saying there's a chance... Nice!

All it takes is a chip and a chair. Lol.

Who cares what a solver would do in a spot that is entirely dependent on live reads?

Not that I'm a fan of solvers but calling off 3 ways against a tight-passive with TT on a 9 high flop doesn't seem like a long term winner.

Nice of you to only include the part that helps your argument which regardless is incomplete.

That makes sense. Excepting that I wasn't replying to you, and I absolutely included everything that was contextually relevant to both the point I was making and the post I was replying to. So, I'm not sure what your saying is incomplete.

Additionally, nothing in your triggered response makes sense, but maybe I'm missing your overall point.

Did you read the OP? I’ve highlighted the relevant parts.

If you expand your thought process and analysis you’ll see that we are near the top of our BTN raising range. Flopping an overpair on the BTN and facing a x/jam on a wet board that misses our PFR range is a completely different scenario then opening UTG and facing the same action.

We started the hand 130 BB’s and 100 BB’s effective. Utilizing fairly standard population reads of euro combined with OPs read that he overshoves often it’s pretty obvious he’s going to be overweighted to draws. That’s a mathematical fact that can be proven with counting combos. It’s pretty damn hard to make a hand in this game. Combine that with the fact that the laggy villain that likes to gamble takes two minutes to decide what to do, gives hero the stare down and then doesn’t even shove his remaining $150 into the middle its pretty obvious he’s got a weak made hand.

Both villains played the hand very well and outplayed hero. Given the results and how wide both of these villains were it’s simply a fact that folding was a mistake. If you’re afraid to call off $500 here (technically shoving $650) with an overpair you’re playing scared money.

Notice how he didnt highlight the part about V2 "showing consistency of being tight passive"? Tight passive and overshoves often are totally contradictory so the reads are useless. That takes us back to population reads. TT is almost never ahead herer and when it is, its going to get outdrawn very frequently against 2 people.

Of course the reads are contradictory Mike. That’s why you stick to the facts which in this case is over shoving made hands, draws and bluffs. OP even called attention to that fact referring to it as “one solid read from my notes.” Try to keep up.

Eventually you’ll learn the math and realize having 50-60% equity versus his draws and needing 30% is a slam dunk stack off. Your leaks are glaring.

Fold cuz both have sets duhh

Appreciate the bolding. That being said, hero also denotes that overshoves are balanced and deeper villain is tight passive. Maybe I'm wrong, but where I play, tight passive tend not to overshove with low tp type hands. Heads up, you would have more of an argument. 3 ways, you just don't seem to be on the winning side often enough.

I'm aware this goes against 2p2's protocol of "omgbbqoverpairjamloldonk", but as a llsnl even if you're marginally ahead some of the time, you aren't likely to stay that way. I know the community is rather online leaning, but playing live your margins need to be more than they are online because the hph is so much lower.

Because the above is going to be taken it off context and as an effort to clarify... I'm okay with calling off against one opponent or hell, even jamming yourself against the right villain. Against 2 players, your equity essentially vanishes here with TT.

You came in AFTER results were posted and said this is a call like you're some kind of savant of poker. Calling here is so bad its laughable and making these calls is the reason you had to go back to a real job.

Its the reason you think variance in live poker is so bad and the reason you think it takes 10,000s of hours to get a true win rate. You and Mr "stick it in his eye" are the only 2 who think its a call and both only said that after results were posted. No winning player would ever think this is a call against 2 players. You're leaks are so obvious, that Stevie Wonder can see them.

Havick,

OP did a poor job with the hand history. The middle eastern villain that x/jammed was only $500 deep meaning he’s shoving $465 to win $1045. He needs 45% equity when called and his flush draws are going to have 30-50% equity. Given hero’s wide range on the BTN and how much air hero has in his c-bet range the middle eastern shoving $465 is a fine play. “Tight passive” is a useless read. It doesn’t tell you anything and is immediately superseded by the actual reads OP has in his notes about villain shoving spots like this with made hands, draws and bluffs. The instant you know villain is capable of (semi) bluffing here this becomes a snap call. The math is indisputable. MikeStarr is a joke and doesn’t understand math/equity which is why he’s so confused about this spot.

Now that you’ve assessed the middle eastern villain you move on to the laggy white guy that likes to gamble and has the $650 stack. This on its own is a fairly subjective meaningless read as well, but when you incorporate the live read of the two minute tank and the stare down you can be reasonably assured he has a weak showdown value hand that is thinking through the hand and correctly identifying that the middle eastern villain most likely has a draw and he’s wondering whether hero actually had a hand or not better than 9x. Given he doesn’t shove his last $150 into the middle you also know he’s not super confident in his hand and doesn’t feel the need to protect it further against a possible draw by hero.

All of these recent posts are just expanding my first post which summed it up perfectly: don’t fold over pairs in single raised pots on wet boards facing this action with these shallow stacks/SPR’s. Your relative hand strength is very strong and your downside is capped to 130 BB’s.

When you understand the equities involved and the configuration of the hand this becomes a fairly trivial stack off. It’s somewhat shocking there weren’t more in the call camp but this is why I’m still grinding 5000 hours and counting year after year after year.

Are you nits folding AA also?

The last think Ill say on this is that if you can make calls like this profitably because multiple people are jamming TP often enough that you cant fold an overpair, you play in one of the softest games on earth and your win rate should be astronomical.