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Old 06-25-2014, 12:37 PM   #1
Nine2FiveSUX
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2/5 Nut flush facing all in on paired board?

HJ+ 1 raises 20, HJ calls 20, Btn (hero) A7 call 20 and bb(villain) completes. villain started with ~1600, hero had ~1300 to start the hand. no reads on villain this happened fairly early in the table.

flop (82) Q96 checks around to btn bet 45, bb c/r to 100 folds around to btn calls

turn (282) 2 villain bets 250, hero calls

river(782) Q villain tank shoves river, btn(~930 left)

is this ever a spot to fold the nut flush or do you call it off anyways? he could of had say K/10s or J/10s but does he really over ship the river when he hits with those hands, or is he going for gold with Q9,66,99 hoping I had the flush or trip Q's? played a leveling war for a while, but curious what ppl would do as played.
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:44 PM   #2
nascent
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Re: 2/5 Nut flush facing all in on paired board?

What did the dude look like? Unless he was over 60 or absent a solid read I call.
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:44 PM   #3
rongeremy
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Re: 2/5 Nut flush facing all in on paired board?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine2FiveSUX View Post
HJ+ 1 raises 20, HJ calls 20, Btn (hero) A7 call 20 and bb(villain) completes. villain started with ~1600, hero had ~1300 to start the hand. no reads on villain this happened fairly early in the table.

flop (82) Q96 checks around to btn bet 45, bb c/r to 100 folds around to btn calls

turn (282) 2 villain bets 250, hero calls

river(782) Q villain tank shoves river, btn(~930 left)

is this ever a spot to fold the nut flush or do you call it off anyways? he could of had say K/10s or J/10s but does he really over ship the river when he hits with those hands, or is he going for gold with Q9,66,99 hoping I had the flush or trip Q's? played a leveling war for a while, but curious what ppl would do as played.
I've learned from experience that in these situations, you are MUCH better off folding... quickly... so its not too painful...

Personally, I am NEVER calling a monster overbet in a polarized situation on a pair-board with the nut flush...

I just can't think of many scenarios where you are good.. Especially, after he check-raises you and then pots the turn..

Without reads, EASIEST fold of all time..
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:45 PM   #4
Javanewt
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Re: 2/5 Nut flush facing all in on paired board?

With no reads, I'm folding. He could easily have called pre with 99 or 66, and he kind of played it that way with the check-raise on flop and bet on turn. When someone pushes into the flush card on a paired board, it's usually strength -- although that is a bit of an overbet. I fold and don't say a word about my hand (never do anyway). Heck, he could have QQ
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:45 PM   #5
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I dont think anyone is shoving a boat here on rvr... They are prob going smaller for value against all Qx and flushes... So prob calling pretty happily here.. Expecting to see Qx or smaller flush or a bluffed counterfeit 2pr

Btw to all you folders .. The cr could easily be combo draw spade or tpQx with spades...
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:46 PM   #6
Javanewt
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Re: 2/5 Nut flush facing all in on paired board?

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Originally Posted by nascent View Post
What did the dude look like? Unless he was over 60 or absent a solid read I call.
I'm the opposite -- absent a solid read I fold.
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:54 PM   #7
rongeremy
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Re: 2/5 Nut flush facing all in on paired board?

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Originally Posted by Oddhalo View Post
I dont think anyone is shoving a boat here on rvr... They are prob going smaller for value against all Qx and flushes... So prob calling pretty happily here.. Expecting to see Qx or smaller flush or a bluffed counterfeit 2pr

Btw to all you folders .. The cr could easily be combo draw spade or tpQx with spades...
I can see J10 of spades.. what game do you play in where people check-raise Qx with JUST 1 spade in their hand? <<<They dont even have a flush draw............

Since pair and flush draw is not in the range... Makes it more likely that he check-raises the set or J10s..

OP - Need AT LEAST a description of villain... If he even looked remotely competant, then MOST smaller flushes than nut flush would bet/fold river no?

Btw, this might be a leak.. but if i put hero on some type of flush draw AQ, QK hand... I will ship in this spot sometimes... Sometimes, I would bet $600.. Its 50/50 to me but would really be villain dependant. You need a read/description...
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:56 PM   #8
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Agreed, not sure if boats over shove river here, we can beat aq/kq/qj and busted combo draws.... 66/99 would prob bet around $500 - $700 on river

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Old 06-25-2014, 01:09 PM   #9
Nine2FiveSUX
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Re: 2/5 Nut flush facing all in on paired board?

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Originally Posted by bobncsu325 View Post
Agreed, not sure if boats over shove river here, we can beat aq/kq/qj and busted combo draws.... 66/99 would prob bet around $500 - $700 on river

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at the same time if your going to bet 500-700 and expect a call from say a flush or Qx than y not just shove, but I do see the argument and I thought of this as well.
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Old 06-25-2014, 01:13 PM   #10
Nine2FiveSUX
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Re: 2/5 Nut flush facing all in on paired board?

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Originally Posted by rongeremy View Post
I can see J10 of spades.. what game do you play in where people check-raise Qx with JUST 1 spade in their hand? <<<They dont even have a flush draw............

Since pair and flush draw is not in the range... Makes it more likely that he check-raises the set or J10s..

OP - Need AT LEAST a description of villain... If he even looked remotely competant, then MOST smaller flushes than nut flush would bet/fold river no?

Btw, this might be a leak.. but if i put hero on some type of flush draw AQ, QK hand... I will ship in this spot sometimes... Sometimes, I would bet $600.. Its 50/50 to me but would really be villain dependant. You need a read/description...
--the villain looked like he was from Israel and had an accent, but didn't know this at the time cuz he never spoke until later on. but like I said this hand happened within the first orbit of sitting at the table so never had any reads as to how this person played.
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Old 06-25-2014, 01:14 PM   #11
ThaNEWPr0fess0r
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Re: 2/5 Nut flush facing all in on paired board?

This is a fold IMO. Q9, 99 and 66 are all square in this guy's range. The over bet shove on the board pair/flush card is a pretty classic tactic to get someone to stack off when the draw comes in... I mean who draws to a flush and then folds when it comes in? Who over bet shoves a non nut flush when the board pairs?
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Old 06-25-2014, 01:35 PM   #12
Javanewt
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Re: 2/5 Nut flush facing all in on paired board?

I would shove a full house here because I know many players think nobody will shove a full house here and they will call with their nut flush Seriously. I'm with ThaNewProfessor -- who shoves the river on this board with a K-high flush or less?

Maybe he turns out to be a maniac bluffer, but readless, I fold.
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Old 06-25-2014, 01:38 PM   #13
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Re: 2/5 Nut flush facing all in on paired board?

I can't believe some people are saying to snap this off. Villain played this hand exactly like he has a boat...check-raises flop, bets near pot on turn, and then shoves the river when the board pairs. We're playing deep-stacked poker...if you're thinking of calling this off, please come play at my table.

Unless you've seen this move multiple times from villain (which we have not), you have to fold. What do you think villain is giving us credit for when calling down like this the whole way?? He either is putting us on a Q or nut flush which is what we have. Does anyone really think that V bets this way OOP with a draw the whole way??

This should be relatively simple fold IMO....
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Old 06-25-2014, 01:57 PM   #14
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Re: 2/5 Nut flush facing all in on paired board?

Maybe I am a nit, $250 on the turn I would not call the bet unless we are over 4- 500 BB deep.
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Old 06-25-2014, 02:16 PM   #15
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Re: 2/5 Nut flush facing all in on paired board?

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Originally Posted by 2+4=6 View Post
Maybe I am a nit, $250 on the turn I would not call the bet unless we are over 4- 500 BB deep.
Oh yeah...don't have odds to call turn bet....this is bad....mmmkaayyy
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Old 06-25-2014, 02:32 PM   #16
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Re: 2/5 Nut flush facing all in on paired board?

without any reads on him I'm not about to try to hero call this river. If he showed a lower flush or a bluff, just yawn it off. For the next 99 times this happens, see how many times he shows up with a boat or quads

also agree about calling the turn bet, we have no odds to continue drawing for the flush and probably not any FE either, based on his bet sizing
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Old 06-25-2014, 03:24 PM   #17
Siculamente
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Fold.

Most guys aren't overbet jamming river w/o a boat.

Let's say v was trying to think about your hand- if you had sets and 2p u 3b flop. Mean you have tons of draws and the flush came in on the river.

Villain would have to be turning a bunch of hands into bluffs for this to be a call. Just don't see it.

V probably had a brain fart and just shipped with a boat
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