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Old 06-15-2021, 08:00 PM   #1
D$Poker
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2/5 NLH Parx Casino

2/5 NLH Parx Casino 9Handed
In the BB pos. sitting at around 3.6k
Effective stack is the main villain who is sitting around 2k

Table analysis - before getting into the hand, super limp happy and limp calling table, example if it limps to MP and someone makes it 30 legitimately everyone who limps will call the 30. Very odd but no one at the table liked folding preflop.

Main villain analysis - was odd in some spots, seen him limp with big hands, and raise with suited connecters preflop. Seen him only 3bet twice and that was with KKs and AAs. He previously called me down with mid pair after i mistakenly thought i flopped a straight and doubled him up. I was in for about 28 hrs of playtime what can I say?
However thats another hand I will be discussing with you guys later lol.

Utg actually blurs out “I should of straddle this ****ing hand” but decides to just call the 5, Utg+1 call 5, main villain makes it 25, folds to the HJ who calls and CO who also calls. Folds to me in the BB and i 3bet to $250 which oddly only the Villain in +2 and the CO calls.

My hand AA
Flop ($777)
6J10

I lead out $400 and only the Villain calls, CO folds.

Turn ($1577)
Q

I then decide to just open rip All In for roughly 2900 covering Villain, not only to maximize fold equity from any 2 pair or set, but noting that I block the nut flush and am drawing to it/ having a gutter for broadway.

Villain takes about 1 minute before deciding on a call for his remaining 1350 total.

River
7

I turn over my hand and the Villain turns over 66 for bottom set.

My question- Can I have played this hand any differently? Was my sizing preflop to small? Was my jam on the turn face up saying I have only the A of heart? Or is a dude never going to fold a set to a possible higher set/flush/straight present. I would play my value hands like this and have been at the table. I rolled over a few bluffs in big spots as the table was a good actiony environment with everyone sitting fairly deep, and all were really talkative just having a good time. I was mostly to myself but showed 2 big bluffs knowing they will start calling me lighter in later hands. Was this an example of why you should never show anything to your opponents?
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Old 06-15-2021, 09:30 PM   #2
Ranma4703
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Re: 2/5 NLH Parx Casino

don't give results. you said you tried to bluff someone who called you down with mid pair off two pair or a set, so yes I think you did many wrong things. You're allowed to stop betting at some point. I don't understand your turn jam with AA. If you had like, A6 with the Ah, maybe, but even then, no, and also, you don't have that.

Why are you turning AA into a bluff?

Also, have you 3bet much, or is your hand face up as KK/AA?
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Old 06-15-2021, 09:53 PM   #3
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Re: 2/5 NLH Parx Casino

And I thought the LA games were loose! Wow!!!

At first, I was going to say the $250 preflop was way too big. But after your call amount, the pot is $110, so the $250 was only a little more than a PSB. I still don't like the sizing, but then I play deep-stacked 1/3, not 2/5. Personally, I like to play post-flop and all streets ... and evaluate as I go. So, $125 seems better. That changes a lot.
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Old 06-16-2021, 06:49 AM   #4
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Re: 2/5 NLH Parx Casino

Yeah, the 3bet pf is too big. You don't want everyone to fold usually. In this case, I guess if was ok. Turn shove is spew. No worse hand than your's is going to call. And as you saw, no better hand is folding.
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Old 06-16-2021, 06:57 AM   #5
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Re: 2/5 NLH Parx Casino

Everything about this hand looks fine except that you should have bet more on flop.

On the turn, I am also shoving but I am not happy about it. The thing is, if we are beat, we still (usually) have a big redraw. We have 13 outs against a set. Meanwhile, Villain can have KQ or KJ or a pair with a 9 kicker, and we want to charge those hands on the turn.
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Old 06-16-2021, 12:03 PM   #6
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Re: 2/5 NLH Parx Casino

Welcome to the forum. In the future, don't post results with the hand as it could alter the responses you get.

Preflop: At an active table like this I would generally make a pot sized reraise of $110 more, but if people are willing to call more than by all means raise more. The basic idea is to raise as much as you think will be called.

Flop: As played, bet $650ish.

On this flop there are a lot of hands your opponents could want to stick around with and your opponents seem like the types who like to stick around, so bet enough to make them pay for doing it.

Turn: As played, Check with the intention of calling a bet.

Flush and straight draws just got there, and 2 pair is now a lot more likely, but you have a decent amount of outs against all those hands. If it checks through you don't mind getting the free card, and it also means a river value bet is more likely to be called by hands like KJ. You have enough outs + hand strength to justify calling a bet, plus a scary board like this could induce a bluff.

After the hand: Lose with grace and do whatever you need to do to calm yourself so that you don't go on tilt after having your aces cracked.

Just my opinion...

EDIT: To add on to my turn comments, the reason you don't want to shove the turn is that you are only getting called by hands that beat you and KQ with the Kh. Against opponents like this I don't expect them to fold any hand that beats yours, so a shove gets value out of one potential hand in his range, and loses value to every other hand in his range.

Last edited by Moneyline; 06-16-2021 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 06-16-2021, 01:18 PM   #7
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Re: 2/5 NLH Parx Casino

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moneyline View Post
To add on to my turn comments, the reason you don't want to shove the turn is that you are only getting called by hands that beat you and KQ with the Kh. Against opponents like this I don't expect them to fold any hand that beats yours, so a shove gets value out of one potential hand in his range, and loses value to every other hand in his range.
The problem with this is that if we are calling a bet anyway, checking allows our opponent to check back with hands that are live to beat us, such as KQ, KJ, or maybe if our opponent got here with J9 or T9. With the pot as big as it is, and us not being willing to fold to a bet anyway, giving these hands a free card when we could charge them on the turn is a disaster.

If we think Villain has hands in his flop calling range that will now fold the turn, that's fine. Let him fold them. We are better off putting the money in ourselves than calling it off when we are behind. The exception is if we think Villain will get scared and check back hands that beat us. Then checking could be better.
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Old 06-16-2021, 02:33 PM   #8
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Re: 2/5 NLH Parx Casino

Dudes, preflop is 100% fine. If table is reckless enough to call a 10x squeeze in this configuration, why not go for it? They’re getting pretty poor implied odds and we get more value.

Like look how deep we are. Huge 3 bets are going to play better at these depths.

I really don’t like turn though. We should be just calling the bet. We’ve already seen this dude go all the way light, and now we want to fold him off sets? Yes I know it’s for a lot of money, but this guy has shown that he doesn’t like to fold. And if he has a set, he’s just going to say to himself “I have outs and I gotta see it”. Really a useless jam.

But the preflop is fine
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Old 06-16-2021, 03:59 PM   #9
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Re: 2/5 NLH Parx Casino

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr0317 View Post
Dudes, preflop is 100% fine. If table is reckless enough to call a 10x squeeze in this configuration, why not go for it? They’re getting pretty poor implied odds and we get more value.

Like look how deep we are. Huge 3 bets are going to play better at these depths.

I really don’t like turn though. We should be just calling the bet. We’ve already seen this dude go all the way light, and now we want to fold him off sets? Yes I know it’s for a lot of money, but this guy has shown that he doesn’t like to fold. And if he has a set, he’s just going to say to himself “I have outs and I gotta see it”. Really a useless jam.

But the preflop is fine

Yeah, i mean- lol at thinking preflop is bad. With deep stacks and a crazy callhappy table going bigger with our betsizes for value is an excellent exploitative adjustment. This kind of basic adjustment should be like an automatic instinct when you have played alot of livepoker.
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Old 06-16-2021, 04:07 PM   #10
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Re: 2/5 NLH Parx Casino

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Originally Posted by Petrucci View Post
Yeah, i mean- lol at thinking preflop is bad. With deep stacks and a crazy callhappy table going bigger with our betsizes for value is an excellent exploitative adjustment. This kind of basic adjustment should be like an automatic instinct when you have played alot of livepoker.

I also misread his post. It was wicked confusing. But apparently he didn’t check rip 2900 on the turn, he just jammed 1350 or slightly under pot.

This isn’t good on this turn card, we should be checking and deciding against a bet. But it’s not as horrendous as I thought when I had assumed he check ripped or open ripped 2900.

And back to preflop, if dudes want to set mine giving these implied odds, they’ll be having a hard time winning against us. Most of the time they will miss and have awkward situations where they could be calling bets drawing slim, or folding when ahead when we cbet JT4 with AK. And sometimes they’ll hit their set and we won’t have a hand to pay it off. And sometimes they’ll hit their set and it’s no good.

So yeah, charge people for being bad at poker. Live fish treatment 101.
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Old 06-16-2021, 04:59 PM   #11
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Re: 2/5 NLH Parx Casino

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moneyline View Post
Welcome to the forum. In the future, don't post results with the hand as it could alter the responses you get.

Preflop: At an active table like this I would generally make a pot sized reraise of $110 more, but if people are willing to call more than by all means raise more. The basic idea is to raise as much as you think will be called.

Flop: As played, bet $650ish.

On this flop there are a lot of hands your opponents could want to stick around with and your opponents seem like the types who like to stick around, so bet enough to make them pay for doing it.

Turn: As played, Check with the intention of calling a bet.

Flush and straight draws just got there, and 2 pair is now a lot more likely, but you have a decent amount of outs against all those hands. If it checks through you don't mind getting the free card, and it also means a river value bet is more likely to be called by hands like KJ. You have enough outs + hand strength to justify calling a bet, plus a scary board like this could induce a bluff.

After the hand: Lose with grace and do whatever you need to do to calm yourself so that you don't go on tilt after having your aces cracked.

Just my opinion...

EDIT: To add on to my turn comments, the reason you don't want to shove the turn is that you are only getting called by hands that beat you and KQ with the Kh. Against opponents like this I don't expect them to fold any hand that beats yours, so a shove gets value out of one potential hand in his range, and loses value to every other hand in his range.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrucci View Post
Yeah, i mean- lol at thinking preflop is bad. With deep stacks and a crazy callhappy table going bigger with our betsizes for value is an excellent exploitative adjustment. This kind of basic adjustment should be like an automatic instinct when you have played alot of livepoker.

Thank you, just makes no sense in not charging our opponents to see the flop. People clearly never played at a decent table where everyone’s deep enough for maneuverability, and knowing they will call large bets preflop with marginal hands. I was 3bet and 4bet happy at this table for that reason. Denying marginal holdings that can have a chance on flopping big when we are at the top of our range preflop.
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Old 06-16-2021, 05:23 PM   #12
D$Poker
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Re: 2/5 NLH Parx Casino

Thank you well noted. Everything you stated was on point, I just feel as if he were to jam turn I would still be forced to call 80% of the time depending on player type. If he was the super nitty guy at the table, who hasn’t got out of line and has been showing solid hands @ showdown then maybe a fold is justified as I know for sure i don’t have the best hand and i’m drawing. But to a guy that’s been calling people down super super light, to me its a no brainer. Definitely in this spot could of saved maybe $500-$1350 if i were to have checked and see what he does, but in the long run against players like this aren’t we missing out on enormous amounts of value?? Anyway now looking at, youre completely right, im only going to get called by better but I feel as if this doesnt apply to this player type hahaha! Thank you again will for sure keep that in mind and next time try not to bloat tf out of a pot OOP lol

Last edited by D$Poker; 06-16-2021 at 05:24 PM. Reason: Emojis are a no go ;(
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Old 06-16-2021, 05:58 PM   #13
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Re: 2/5 NLH Parx Casino

When he called you with middle pair how big was the pot?
I mean if he's a heavyweight station who hates to fold even in a very big pot I'm fine with stuffing the turn.

I mean people saying 'don't bluff him he's a station' would make sense if you only had the FD+gutty, but we also have AA here and a villain who could (?) call with worse.
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Old 06-17-2021, 04:05 AM   #14
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Re: 2/5 NLH Parx Casino

1. 28 hour sessions are way to long IMO. Need to cut the hourly down significantly to play optimally. Clearly from what you stated "I thought I flopped a set", you were brain fogged and had no mental clarity (I would as well after playing 28 hours).

2. Preflop : I like the sizing for a couple reasons......

- "If they throw rock, you throw paper" If villains are opening wide (wide=weak) and stacks are deeper, punish them, especially if they are calling wide as well.

-We are OOP. Deny them the correct odds to continue.

-It is 2/5, so we do not need to focus on balance to prevent being exploited. Stick to a value heavy range and up the ante for them to continue. In this type of game it will print blue benjamines.

3. Postflop : (FLOP) J106
Being multiway in a 3bet pot and with this board texture will not be smooth waters. This is not the greatest of flops and smacks are opponents 3 bet calling range. Being OOP, I would be checking at a much higher frequency than usual. A c-bet should still merit profitability and +EV but sizing may be off.

I think we can down bet here to 25% pot and make the garbage fold either way and only worthy hands continue. We will adjust accordingly.

(TURN) Q
This is a check IMO. Worse is never calling your JAM. Was this jam for value (to get called by worse) or was it a bluff to rep the flush ? That is what you need to ask yourself. AA has showdown value so it should never be labeled a bluff here.

The only hands that you are getting to fold are

KJ suited (3 combos) / KJ off (to many combos to count its 4AM as I post this LOL)

KQ suited (3 combos) / KQ off (^^^^)

88 / 99 shouldn't continue flop

and villain has all sets in range + 89 suited + 2 pair

Villain should be raising flop given the connectivity and wetness but we cannot discontinue from his 3 bet calling range.

Turn = Check & adjust accordingly to villain's decision.

Keep posting & Keep studying away from the tables Goodluck !
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Old 06-20-2021, 07:32 PM   #15
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Re: 2/5 NLH Parx Casino

Quote:
Originally Posted by 007AGENT View Post
(TURN) Q
This is a check IMO. Worse is never calling your JAM. Was this jam for value (to get called by worse) or was it a bluff to rep the flush ? That is what you need to ask yourself. AA has showdown value so it should never be labeled a bluff here.

The only hands that you are getting to fold are

KJ suited (3 combos) / KJ off (to many combos to count its 4AM as I post this LOL)

KQ suited (3 combos) / KQ off (^^^^)

88 / 99 shouldn't continue flop

and villain has all sets in range + 89 suited + 2 pair

Villain should be raising flop given the connectivity and wetness but we cannot discontinue from his 3 bet calling range.

Turn = Check & adjust accordingly to villain's decision.

Keep posting & Keep studying away from the tables Goodluck !
If Villain is never folding two pair or bottom set on this board and we don't care about balance, Hero can value shove ruthlessly with top and middle sets, flushes and Broadway straights. Hero won't need to semibluff shove with AA and KK, which are probably actually our weakest holdings in this spot. But if I'm in Villain's shoes, I feel terrible with bottom set on that board with the preflop action.
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Old 06-20-2021, 08:48 PM   #16
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Re: 2/5 NLH Parx Casino

If Hero is shoving all AK, QQs, AhA and KhK on the turn I make that Hero ahead 19 hands to 6.
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Old 06-21-2021, 07:52 PM   #17
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Re: 2/5 NLH Parx Casino

I might get bashed here but I think hand is played fine somewhat. I think you can go a little bigger with flop sizing with a coordinated board. The pre sizing is too big but at the right table like this, probably fine to go so big if you think you get a call often. As played, not much you really can do here, the spr is what..... 2.25 based on villains stack- I don’t think you can fold AA on this board lol.

Btw find it odd villian doesn’t x raise flop. Your line is one that very unlikely to fold to a flop x-raise. Think villian should be x raising flop here.
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