V: mid 40's black gentleman, wearing headphones, have seen him at this cardroom a couple times before, but never played with him. After 30 minutes, Hero, realizes V is a total fish - plays literally every hand pre, will limp everything except premiums, calls ALL pf raises within reason, will reluctantly fold terrible holdings pre to a raise.

Hero: mid 30's white guy, known as a semi-pro at this cardroom. V doesn't know me, presumably knows nothing about my game.

History: V sat down with ~$800 approx 30 minutes prior, and proceeded to double thru the table big stack with AA the very first hand he played.

Hero(utg)($930): 910
Villain(btn)($1400): ? ?

PRE: Hero raises to $15, 4 callers.

pot~$70
FLOP - 9 7 2 rainbow
BB cks, Hero bets $45, V calls, BB calls.

pot~$205
TURN - 5, completes rainbow
BB cks, Hero bets $85, V takes forever to stack the right amount of chips, then finally pushes them forward to call, BB folds.

pot~$375
RIV - 2
Hero cks, V looks at Hero and shoves....Hero has ~$790 behind...

Hero?

Thanks guys. Thoughts on all streets appreciated...

At a FR loose game probably folding marginas from EP.

You are trying to rep. an OP bit o doubt you'll have it very often since you'll raise $25/30 knowing that this "fish" is calling with close to 90% of his range just to smash.
If you want to tell a consistent story then bet/fold River on the smaller side.
I don't see much value in betting flop either you have top pair and a kicker you're not in love with, I'd probably check/call flop depending on who bets.
AP
Fold.

I also don't like opening hands like this from EP, especially >180bb deep against loose players.

I don't know if I like the line postflop or not. It really depends on reads. If V's been playing every single hand, surely we have some relevant postflop reads on him by now?

Even fish can make a hand.

Much less an hand better than ours.

When we are beat we are beat.

You know pre is bad.

I don't like the double barrel in a five way pot. Turn I especially don't like without a read on BB.

River...when you say V is bad due to your past experience...have you seen him button click bluff? Because "bad" isn't that helpful a read here on its own without some idea of how he is bad postflop. The only read you really give on him is preflop.

When you make a small raise OOP your hoping to flop something better then top pair with a medium kicker. Flop bet isn't bad because you did hit the flop, but you should be hoping to take it down then. You need to check turn because the pot is now too big, you have multiple villains and one of the obvious draws came in.

On river fold. Villain is likely to be bluffing some of the time but without a read on how often your hand isn't good enough to find out. The over bet shove means you have to be right way more then wrong before calling is +EV and your hand is weak enough that villain may be bluffing with a better hand.

Even fish make hands
Quality cards you must play
Fold Nine-Ten early

Raise bigger pre. Whatever your std open is. Dont reduce it because of your holdings. And if dude is playing every hand increase your std open a bb or two. Make him pay. I like the flop and turn barrells because he will call light. I have played many hands vs this archetype and betting is the best thing you can do. He will call down with lots of randomness. And your not betting as a bluff it is all for value.

OTR...??? Why check? I think you get called by a worse t and most 7s. 88 and 99 call also. Bet 100 otr and fold to his shove. This is a very specific V who reacts passively to aggression and aggressively to passivity.

Or just snap call his shove after you x.......

pre - utg open with T9s. meh, not really my style, but whatever floats your boat...

flop - the problem with cbetting weak made hands on weak flops is that you bloat the pot very quickly with hands that aren't really great. would you be cbetting 88 on a 642 board?

turn - you're now 3 handed with TPNK and a OESD completes. the only TPs you beat are 98, 96, 94, 93. AP, i think this is where you really need to slow down

river - probably bet/fold here. you dont know if he will bet if you check, you really can't call any descent bet though but you have some SDV. AP, sack up and Hero call him or fold. from you're description V could have literally anything

assuming he plays 100% (there were 2 callers before getting to V, so he'll probably consider 15 a call) and is a station.

- PRE he raises premiums, so drop JJ+
- OTF he probably folds hands that missed flop completely
- OTT probably folds any BDFDs he was playing that don't have a pair

that gives him a ton of hands we beat, so the only question is, what would he 2x shove with? he's probably not doing it with 76o. a hand like A2/92/72/52 makes more sense. idk. the only reason i would call is because the line makes no sense, but i'd probably fold because i dont feel like losing 160BB with a marginal hand.

Turn bet is bad, you don't get any value from worse. River should be a snap fold, how can you call there with 9-T?

Call

LoL at pre being bad. T9s is an open at ~200 bbs.

River is a clear fold, 9T is pretty much your worst hand there. Turn is a bet/fold and sizing should be better. River check back if he checks, betting is too thin.

UTG?

Also, I doubt everyone in this game is sitting 200 bb deep, just a guess

Yes i did note that op was utg.

The only reason I might fold is if there are a bunch of short stacks that could just be waiting to shove/people behind me that are 3 bet happy, but that was not specified. In a normal live game 9Ts is an open even from early positions.

Well said. I checked on the river because I had some showdown value, V shoving caught me by surprise.

Only postflop reads at this point are that V takes ****ing forever to count his chips whether he's betting, raising, or calling...

Secondary read is that he's a bit of an actor (i.e. he made a disgusted face pre after checking hole cards & then raised lol)

Don't have any meaningful experience with this particular V, except in the last 30 mins. The only read that I have on him is that his range is wide open. I haven't played with him enough to be 100% confident that's it's a legitimate button click bluff on RIV.

I didn't mention BB because he ended up folding turn. BB is a decent player, and very rarely checks OOP with any type of decent holdings, esp against more than 1 opponent.

We're definitely on the same page about this^ Thanks for the reply.

I like the thought process pre for sure. I def need to incorporate more flexibility adjusting to table dynamics.

Yeah, I checked the RIV because I had some showdown value. I realize now my river check tells an inconsistent story and opens the door for this fish or any player for that matter to bet/bluff/whatever. A river bet of $100 or $150 would have slowed him down his tendency to bluff here I think.

Appreciate the thoughtful reply. I like your turn thoughts...

Yeah, I was torn on the riv between folding and calling...I knew that he could def have ****ing anything there, but dammit, why would he shove if there was any chance I would call with a better hand??