I had a discussion with my friends regarding this hand and we seem to be at odds on how to proceed.

Villain in this hand has been active but not particularly aggressive. He’s seated directly to my right and I’ve been three betting him semi frequently. Just the hand before he had raises button and I 3b from the sb and he folded.

Villain has about 550 and I cover. He raises to 20 from the cutoff and I go 55 from button with Qh Qs. I chose a little smaller 3b sizing hoping he would be fed up with it and go for a 4b but he flats.

(117) flop is Kc 8d 6d
He checks I go 60 and he flats.

(237) turn is Qd
He bets 120 and action is to hero? What line do you choose to take here?


Thanks for your time in responses

That's an interesting line to take by the Villain, most folks don't bet out when their flush card comes in, but maybe the Villain wants you to think that is the case here, but who knows, I wouldnt rule out the flush here, but I think its a smaller probability they have it. AdKd is possible, but some folks like to 4 bet with a hand that strong.

I like flatting the $120, and re-evaluating on the river. You could try raising to see where you are at, but with Villains stack you are inviting him to jam, I would take the lower variance route and just flat.

If we call there will be 487 in the pot and he will have 310 left (we cover).

A flush is not that likely especially given our history. It looks like he is scared of being bluffed off the hand and to be honest we would have bet/called a jam on this turn anyway. His most likely holding is pair of Kings + a flush draw or some kind of straight/flush combo draw like AJ. He could even have air.

I just jam and hope to get called by worse.

If it was a more aggressive villain, I would consider calling to keep all his bluffs in and call a shove on any non- river. But I'm expecting this guy to have some kind of equity and to be capable of giving up if he misses his card on the river.

To me it seems a lot like a spaz with an AX hand or he's really afraid that you will check back the turn. Either way I'd probably flat and hope for a boat or a non diamond river and call off.

Shoving seems bad. I don't think anything except a flush calls...maybe AK with the Ad. I'd opt to call with the plan to reluctantly call it off on non diamond rivers. Obviously if he checks or the board pairs you can ship it yourself

Call turn.

Well your the only one that had the same mindset as I did. I don’t give much merit to him having a monster hand yet I believe it’s one that has some equity. My mindset was that he either had Ad x, some type of straight draw/flush draw, or some pair/flush draw(including Kd x)where he was just trying to get to showdown at his own price.

Their was a lot of money already in the pot so I felt that a jam was my best option. If he happens to have a flush I’ll gamble with one card to come but I didn’t want to leave it to chance and I felt their was a chance he could still call with worse.

The fact that the majority all felt it was a call though makes me realize that their is always work to be done on our game and that perhaps my mindset was inaccurate and that their are times we always need to reassess our options.

Thanks for taking the time to reply I appreciate the thought out answers everyone provided.

Call turn.

Given the history, I think he puts hero mainly on air. So it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me that he would lead out with a made flush when he doesn't think we have much - he's going to fold out a lot of our bluffs.

But for the times that he does have a made flush and doesn't fold to our jam, we still have a 23% chance of sucking out on him.

Srsly though, if he turned the joint, figured out we had a strong hand and induced us to spaz then this...

So you're shoving to try to fold out his bluffs?

I don't care that much if he calls or folds his semi-bluffs. In the unlikely event that he has complete air, I'm not expecting to make any more money from this guy no matter what we do because he's described as not particularly aggressive.

Given our history with villain, I think the nutter butters has to be a very small part of his range. We've been reraising him semi-frequently so it's highly possible he puts us on air and expects us to keep barreling the turn. If that's the case, it wouldn't normally make sense for him to lead the turn with a made flush.

I think a lot of the time he has some equity and he doesn't want to be bluffed off his hand. He's betting partly to take down the pot and partly to set his own price for the turn so he has the chance to make an even bigger hand on the river.

I think this would be different if we weren't in position. Hero will always have the last say whether all the chips go in whether the boat gets there or not. There's also always a chance V will continue with a bluff/semi bluff (even though you say hes not that aggressive OP said its possible hes fed up with the 3bets) or some other value hand like KQ trying to charge Hero looking for a 4th diamond.

I flat the raise. I don't want to fold worse, and he's only calling with better, except for AdKx, which will most likely call, or AdAx, which should have 4bet, but he might be "trapping." Calling most rivers. Obviously raising pairing rivers. If he has KK, so be it, but that is doubtful.

Much depends on his 3-b calling range pre, specifically how many FDs are in his range.

If it is wide, with 8-10 FD combos in, I'd likely flat the turn. If just high rank FD combos, I'd opt to jam, since the other combos like AdKx/AdAx/KdQc outnumber those. The jam is for value, as those hands will likely call.

This is where I am too. V has given us almost the necessary immediate odds to call and draw if we are behind and I seriously doubt we are getting him to fold any hands that beat us now. So the shove doesn't have as much merit to me (unless our read is so good that we are shoving for value and I dont think we feel that way). The only "value" we might get from a shove is if he calls off all of his pair+draw hands that wold fold to a non-diamond river bet.

I just think by shoving we give away our positional advantage here for not a lot of extra EV when called. I am a lower variance player though so I can't say that I think a shove is awful, just lower EV.

My thought process was definitely jamming for value. If he didn’t happen to have Ad for example he may put me on it and call a jam with a lesser holding. If he did have Ad or possibly the Kd I think he’s probably not gonna want to fold either. I believe top pair/flush draw (Kd) would look strong in his eyes given the size of the pot

I definitely don’t mind playing big pots myself. I honestly feel like their isn’t really many times that more money was gonna go in the pot here unless if the fourth diamond came in which case I’m screwed. If I call his turn bet I’m pretty sure he’s gonna shutdown on most rivers

Just too many bad rivers and tooooons of combo draws villain could have I like the turn shove


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