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2/5 NL: TPTK w/ NFD from BB Line Check

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11-18-2015 , 03:18 PM

johnnyBuz

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Effective stacks of $1000. Hero has won a few hands with nice value bets. V1 is a decent but passive player and doesn't play a ton of hands. V2 is somewhat tight preflop but not an OMC/nit or anything.

V1 limps in MP
V2 raises to $25 from CO
Hero calls $25 with A

V1 calls $25

With no dead money to squeeze I elected not to 3! here. I am friendly with V2 so I didn't want to needlessy go to war here either. He would only continue with hands that had me crushed so I thought there was more value in seeing a flop. If BTN or SB called I would have raised to $100 however.

Flop ($75): Q

Hero checks
V1 checks
V2 checks

Well my intention was to check/raise flop but V2 didn't comply.

Turn ($75): 4

Hero bets $75
V1 calls $75
V2 folds

River ($225): 9

Hero checks
V1 bets $125
Hero calls $125

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11-18-2015 , 03:33 PM

Playbig2000

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fold pre (he is tight pre, 3betting is still an option but the tighter they are I would be folding more bc it's really not that great of a hand to flat from the bb instead of 3betting)

as played, I don' t think you need to pot the turn, 55 does the same job without bloating the pot for our river bet. We want fd's to call and also Qx

otr I would be bet folding

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11-18-2015 , 03:50 PM

samo

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Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,251

Given tight opponent taking a call turn, bet river line, I'd strongly consider folding.

There are 6 combos of AQ we're chopping, but is he betting the river with that holding? Don't think so, looks more like KK+ imo.

Pre - likely folding oop vs. his range.

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11-18-2015 , 04:04 PM

DeathCabForTootie

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Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5,722

Quote:

Originally Posted by samo

Fold pre vs. tight pre-flop opener (unless you know he'll call a 3-bet and play fit-or-fold post).

V never has KK here - he bets flop on a monotone board, especially since the Ah is out there.

We have a bluff catcher here, but I think we're good 1 out of 3.7 times to make this at least a break-even call.

Johnny, did you have a read that villain would bluff the river? If so, nh. However, against straight-forward opponents and given your line, I bet the river to get looked up by Qx. Our hand looks like the naked Ah and we can get two streets.

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11-18-2015 , 04:10 PM

Javanewt

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I pretty much agree with Playbig 2000. Not much to add. As played, I probably would have called the river, too, if I had the right read.

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11-18-2015 , 04:13 PM

johnnyBuz

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Guys, the villain that raised pre-flop (V2) folded on the turn after I bet and V1 called. We are up against the preflop limp/caller so he never has KK (samo).

Re V2: I'd guesstimate his CO raising range over one limper to be AK-AT, KQ-KJ, QJs, 88+

I think that gives us enough equity to make the hand playable. Plus if V1 comes along it will keep V2 honest. And V2 knows Hero to be a competent player so he's less likely to bluff barrel it.

@DC, I didn't have a read he would bluff the river but I thought I had enough showdown value to make the 1/2 PSB call. Chose to take a check/call line in this one vs. my other hand I just posted I bet/folded the river.

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11-18-2015 , 04:19 PM

Playbig2000

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Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyBuz

Re V2: I'd guesstimate his CO raising range over one limper to be AK-AT, KQ-KJ, QJs, 88+

this range is very 3betable.

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11-18-2015 , 04:29 PM

johnnyBuz

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Playbig2000

this range is very 3betable.

True. It may have been a game flow thing as I had 3! a few times recently and wanted to flat instead. Still probably shoulda 3!

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11-18-2015 , 04:29 PM

kookiemonster

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Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,652

grunch

I´m betting 1/2 PSBish OTT, 1/3-1/2PSB OTR hoping to get called by worse queens and middle pairs.

Given we hold the Ah, turning our hand into a bluff catcher OTR (especially against a passive opponent!) doesn´t make sense to me at all.

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11-18-2015 , 04:31 PM

#10

samo

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[QUOTE=johnnyBuz;48684018]Guys, the villain that raised pre-flop (V2) folded on the turn after I bet and V1 called. We are up against the preflop limp/caller so he never has KK (samo).

My misread, sorry. Vs. the PF limp/caller, I'm with the B/F contingency.

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11-18-2015 , 04:34 PM

#11

Mr_Doomed

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Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,629

I like your line so far. I think the fold pre comments are laughable/nitty. AQ dominates a lot of his opening range from the cut off but is likely crushed vs his 3 bet calling range. Also we are in position so I'd rather keep the pot small and make better decisions post flo. With a strong hand, deep stacks and the advantage of position 3 betting seems meh.

I like the line except the check on he river. V1 being passive means he is going to check back a lot of hands that he'd likely call a bet with. I want value from Qx etc so I'd bet 1/2 to 2/3 pot with the plan to fold if raised. Passive players river raises are the nuts.

Last edited by Mr_Doomed; 11-18-2015 at 04:43 PM.

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11-18-2015 , 04:39 PM

#12

johnnyBuz

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Good points guys. River should definitely have been bet/fold.

WRT turn sizing, we are never losing Qx to one bet and I think we get plenty of calls from QxJ

, QxK

TTh, 99h, 88h, 77h, 66h and the myriad of straight draws with a heart. I wouldn't consider potting this "bloating" the pot, rather just a big value bet.

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11-18-2015 , 04:59 PM

#13

blakeatron

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Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 1,173

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyBuz

Good points guys. River should definitely have been bet/fold.

WRT turn sizing, we are never losing Qx to one bet and I think we get plenty of calls from QxJ

, QxK

TTh, 99h, 88h, 77h, 66h and the myriad of straight draws with a heart. I wouldn't consider potting this "bloating" the pot, rather just a big value bet.

Whoops. Misread the hand.

I think turn sizing is fine if we can assume that V1 is limping KQ and QJ because V2 never has those hands.

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11-18-2015 , 05:23 PM

#14

Nice_Guy_Eddie

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Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,135

I agree you played well pre and on the flop. I'd consider check-raising on the turn. You're not really concerned drawing hands because you have the Ah. I'd worry about pot control before betting for value out of Qx hands. I think you also maximize any FE by c/r as opposed to betting. If it checks through, I'd bet any river for value. I'm not convinced TPTK on a flush board is good enough for 2 streets of value.

I also agree that bet/fold is your best option for the river. A passive player raising your river bet gives you all the information you need to fold. As played, I'd probably make a crying call too, but I'm not happy about it.

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11-18-2015 , 08:07 PM

#15

johnnyBuz

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WRT river sizing. Should we be going for max value over betting the pot to something like $275 or is that too thin with the monotone flop and we should save that for when the 2-card flush misses on the river and we have TPTK?

Betting the amount V bet, $125 (~1/2 PSB) feels meh. I think we can do better.

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11-18-2015 , 08:08 PM

#16

DeathCabForTootie

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Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyBuz

What amount would you bet with a naked Ah?

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11-18-2015 , 08:10 PM

#17

johnnyBuz

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Quote:

Originally Posted by kookiemonster

If you think his range is weak and unlikely to call a bet

X = % V folds on river to a bet
Y = % V bets on river when checked to

If Y > (1-X) then it would make sense to check, no? (Assuming fairly similar bet sizing)

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11-18-2015 , 08:13 PM

#18

johnnyBuz

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathCabForTootie

What amount would you bet with a naked Ah?

About $175-225

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11-18-2015 , 08:21 PM

#19

bobman0330

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Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyBuz

What hands is he supposed to be bluffing with? A stiff Kh? It seems like his range skews heavily towards so-so value hand.

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11-18-2015 , 09:24 PM

#20

DeathCabForTootie

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Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyBuz

About $175-225

bet $125-150

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11-19-2015 , 08:35 AM

#21

jambre

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Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,181

Idk why you would c/c river when V is passive and he can have few bluffs.

You should be b/fing river for value as he has a load of Qx.

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11-19-2015 , 09:17 AM

#22

PFunkaliscious

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Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 3,061

lol at folding pre.

I like the big bet on the turn, with everyone checking on the flop, I think you get a wide range of calls.

the river is meh. As villian is described, AQ is just hardly ever good here. I really don't think that he is going for value with a lesser Q. and 125 is not big enough to be a bluff, so it is hard to conjur a hand that we beat.

but we are almost getting 3:1 on the river, so I would probably call also. sorry that V had 99.

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11-19-2015 , 09:35 AM

#23

DeathCabForTootie

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Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyBuz

Re V2: I'd guesstimate his CO raising range over one limper to be AK-AT, KQ-KJ, QJs, 88+

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFunkaliscious

lol at folding pre.

Agreed. I was in the fold pre camp but given that range (not tight), it's a mandatory call and I'd actually lean towards 3-betting.

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11-19-2015 , 05:48 PM

#24

PositiveEV

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 456

Pre- I'm usually 3b pre.

When you get to the river vs v1, bet fold.

With the way the board ran out, what are your thoughts on b/f (2/3) flop, b/f (1/2-2/3) turn and depending who's left on the river, (1/2-2/3: against v1) and (c/calling V2)?
-Value from v1 on the river since he's passive and not betting.
-V2- The river check could make it look like you were betting only the naked A and let him bluff at it.

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11-19-2015 , 07:07 PM

#25

ILOVEPOKER929

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Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyBuz

In this spot I just bet the highest amount i think villain will call with a hand like QJ. Without info, half pot seems about right to me, but if you think villain will call more than bet more.

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