Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-07-2014, 02:08 PM   #1
Spirit-of-Wisdom
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 233
2/5 NL: Is this sexy?

2/5 NL (Live)

Villain #1: Plays ABC poker, tends to overvalue hands and is not observing the players. (Tightest player on the table raised and CC in the BB with K5s and donk the K,2,6 rainbow flop & Villain raised in LP, button CC, maniac 3 bet out of the SB, Villain shoved 60BB with 88)

Villain #2: Plays like a maniac, bluffing every hand.

Hero: Have shown all winners and playing only in position with premium hands. Portraying tight & winning player image.


Villain #2 raised $20 in LP, Hero CC on the button with A9 and Villain #1 CC in the BB. Villain #1 tripled up his initial buyin and had more than 200BB. He has been caught bullying a couple of times. Hero has 60BB.

FLOP

QTT

Villain bets out $50, maniac folds, Hero calls.

TURN

QTTQ

Villain bets out $50 again. Hero calls.

RIVER

QTTQ9

Villain checks. Hero bets $160 into the pot of $260.


Do I need to bet more? What kind of hand am I representing and what kind of hands am I getting the villain to fold?
Spirit-of-Wisdom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2014, 02:17 PM   #2
nwolfe
adept
 
nwolfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 848
Re: 2/5 NL: Is this sexy?

Don't like pre with 60bb, big RIO spot with an often dominated ace playing this short.

Flop is a fold

Turn is a fold. With stack sizes most of your calling range should probably be raising turn to set up river shove.

River isn't sexy, I can't imagine he's folding anything on the end except hands you already beat or maybe naked ace, and you probably get looked up by lots of aces. V probably calling with entire value range, although I'm not sure he has much in his value range either.
nwolfe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2014, 02:31 PM   #3
matzah_ball
veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,555
Re: 2/5 NL: Is this sexy?

Tight and winning image with only 60BB...yeah, okay.

Fold or 3 bet pre. Buy in full. /thread.

Postflop is spew, no idea what you're doing.
matzah_ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2014, 02:48 PM   #4
Garick
Herr Dr Prof Oberstlt
 
Garick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Do you even math, bruh?
Posts: 24,295
Re: 2/5 NL: Is this sexy?

Not sexy, sorry. If you really have a tight winning image, why are you sitting on 60BB? Why flat a speculative hand that short?
Why call the c-bet on a paired board? To float? If so...
Why call a barrel on a double-paired board, to float to river? If so...
Why bluff somebody who overvalues weak hands? He's not folding any hand that beats you. The only thing you're folding out is some chops. Maybe.
Garick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2014, 02:54 PM   #5
Spirit-of-Wisdom
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 233
Re: 2/5 NL: Is this sexy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by matzah_ball View Post
Tight and winning image with only 60BB...yeah, okay.

Fold or 3 bet pre. Buy in full. /thread.

Postflop is spew, no idea what you're doing.
Max buyin is 60 BB. Also, I forgot to add that I had 120BB at the time.

I know it's a fold or 3 bet pre but I want to see how the hand would have played out. My intention was to float. Am I getting AA,KK,JJ to fold here? He isn't tricky enough to check the river with the nuts.

He loses to AQ,AT,KQ,KJ,QQ,TT,99. Seems like he is only beating J9 and chopping with any other A.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_4drf5NFxM
Spirit-of-Wisdom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2014, 02:57 PM   #6
Spirit-of-Wisdom
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 233
Re: 2/5 NL: Is this sexy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick View Post
Not sexy, sorry. If you really have a tight winning image, why are you sitting on 60BB? Why flat a speculative hand that short?
Why call the c-bet on a paired board? To float? If so...
Why call a barrel on a double-paired board, to float to river? If so...
Why bluff somebody who overvalues weak hands? He's not folding any hand that beats you. The only thing you're folding out is some chops. Maybe.
That's what I needed to know. Thank you.
Spirit-of-Wisdom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2014, 05:56 PM   #7
Stacking Chips
adept
 
Stacking Chips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: ATX
Posts: 970
Grunch:

Winning really w 60bb? That's lol
This is a fold on the flop all day.

Learn to top up and buy in full.

Fold pre fold the flop fold the turn fold the river.

(Sexy?) -------------------------def. NOT
Stacking Chips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2014, 06:31 PM   #8
TheSamasaurus
grinder
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 599
Re: 2/5 NL: Is this sexy?

I think this guy has a 10 most of the time here, but he could have a queen.
Based on how you claimed to have played it sexy, i'm going to assume you got him to fold the boat on the river (nice!)

As played, I think betting the river is good provided you think you could get this guy off of a ten.

But I think you played it too passive. Folding flop is probably your best option, although I don't hate a float on the flop because you have an overcard and some backdoor action. I think on the turn you really should either raise or fold tho, calling the turn i think is your worst play of the whole hand. Folding pre, or flop are also in my oppinion +hourly rate

raising flop or raising turn can be good provided you balance it out and maybe have a live tell that this guy is weak but calling turn is really bad
TheSamasaurus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2014, 06:49 PM   #9
Garick
Herr Dr Prof Oberstlt
 
Garick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Do you even math, bruh?
Posts: 24,295
Re: 2/5 NL: Is this sexy?

Quote:
I think betting the river is good provided you think you could get this guy off of a ten.
Zeebo Theorem, my friend. People pretty much never fold a FH, even a bad one. So when we have an overboat/quads we ram and jam for value, and when we don't, we never try to bluff them off it.

TBH, V isn't folding JJ-AA here, much less TX.
Garick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2014, 07:37 PM   #10
Spirit-of-Wisdom
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 233
Re: 2/5 NL: Is this sexy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSamasaurus View Post
I think this guy has a 10 most of the time here, but he could have a queen.
Based on how you claimed to have played it sexy, i'm going to assume you got him to fold the boat on the river (nice!)

As played, I think betting the river is good provided you think you could get this guy off of a ten.

But I think you played it too passive. Folding flop is probably your best option, although I don't hate a float on the flop because you have an overcard and some backdoor action. I think on the turn you really should either raise or fold tho, calling the turn i think is your worst play of the whole hand. Folding pre, or flop are also in my oppinion +hourly rate

raising flop or raising turn can be good provided you balance it out and maybe have a live tell that this guy is weak but calling turn is really bad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick View Post
Zeebo Theorem, my friend. People pretty much never fold a FH, even a bad one. So when we have an overboat/quads we ram and jam for value, and when we don't, we never try to bluff them off it.

TBH, V isn't folding JJ-AA here, much less TX.
If a calling station who overvalue hands, should I have raised the flop or turn to balance my plays?
Spirit-of-Wisdom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2014, 07:42 PM   #11
ecfd200
enthusiast
 
ecfd200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Bangor Maine
Posts: 73
Tight winning player folds A9s pre-flop. Sorry

Sent from my XT901 using 2+2 Forums
ecfd200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2014, 07:45 PM   #12
Garick
Herr Dr Prof Oberstlt
 
Garick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Do you even math, bruh?
Posts: 24,295
Re: 2/5 NL: Is this sexy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit-of-Wisdom View Post
If a calling station who overvalue hands, should I have raised the flop or turn to balance my plays?
No. Stop trying to play like Tom Dwan when you are playing against Tom Dumb. Balance doesn't matter against calling stations, just value bet them mercilessly whenever you are ahead of their calling range.
Garick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2014, 08:54 PM   #13
beauvanlaanen
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
beauvanlaanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 12,490
I don't get the title....?

What are trying to get V to fold? JJ?
beauvanlaanen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2014, 09:38 PM   #14
DaYu
old hand
 
DaYu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Water
Posts: 1,279
Re: 2/5 NL: Is this sexy?

Grunch.

Only read the thread title.

Definitely not sexy.
DaYu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2014, 09:54 PM   #15
johnny_on_the_spot
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
johnny_on_the_spot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: S-Mart
Posts: 10,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit-of-Wisdom View Post
Villain #1: Plays ABC poker, tends to overvalue hands

Villain #2: Plays like a maniac, bluffing every hand.

Hero: Have shown all winners and playing only in position with premium hands. Portraying tight & winning player image.


Villain #2 raised $20 in LP, Hero CC on the button with A9 and Villain #1 CC in the BB.

When did A9s become premium?!? Did I miss that memo?

If you want to portray a winning image, next time 3! the maniacs open to 60 to iso him because you're lightyears ahead of his range. That is a winning play. But that is if he is really a maniac, you overvalued your own description, you easily could do it to V.
johnny_on_the_spot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2014, 07:26 AM   #16
venice10
Referee
 
venice10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nowhere special
Posts: 24,440
Re: 2/5 NL: Is this sexy?

It is spew for the reasons that people above already posted. Congrats on winning the hand.

If you want to lose money long term, keep doing this.
venice10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2014, 08:35 AM   #17
dgiharris
All Hail His Modness
 
dgiharris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: CA and Vegas
Posts: 12,294
Re: 2/5 NL: Is this sexy?

the descriptions in your OP seem contradictory. You claim "the tightest" player on the table raised with K5s, that just doesn't compute. Then you say you have a tight winning image when you are sitting on 60BB, that doesn't compute either.

Preflop is just all kinds of garbage especially based off the OP.

Flop is probably one of the worst plays I've seen here in a while. You are calling a raise from the "tightest" player on the table (your words) and then you are going to float a Q T T rainbow board from said player when you are only 60BB deep?

Turn is pretty bad as well, at no point in this monstrosity of a hand do you know where you are at and essentially your floating "hoping" villain whiffed.

River... This is where I will differ from the other posters. This river bet by you does rep the Queen pretty damn hard and you fold out majority of villain's range here once he checks river to you. (this is assuming villain is a thinking player and can fold AA/KK here instead of doing a martyr call)

The problem though is you are essentially making 3 terribad massive -EV plays to get to the river in which you can turn it all around. If eff stacks were 150bb and you had more history with V and the right image and a great read on his range then perhaps I can get behind this play when viewed from the perspective of your overall game and balancing yada yada yada...

but at 60BB, this line is setting money on fire 3 streets out of 4 and that just isn't longterm winning poker.
dgiharris is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive