2/5 NL, Live, on the East Coast

Villain ($2,650): middle aged asian guy. Somewhat erratic, chipped up after winning a big pot when he got it in bad. Still, reasonably competent. Limps $5 in EP.

Hero ($3,000): young white guy, viewed as loose preflop but competent postflop. Has a tendency to chase draws but get paid big when they hit. Running hot and recovered from down $1,300 to now being up $500. Limps 4h4c for $5 in the CO. Raising is fine, but people have been willing to play big pots with marginal holdings, so happy to keep it small until I flop big.

BB ($2,000): somewhat passive MAWG. Checks his option.

Flop ($15): 8h4s3h.
Gin! But the board is very wet.
BB leads out $60, Villain calls $60, Hero raises to $195, BB calls $195, Villain raises $430, Hero raises to $1,150, BB quickly folds and Villain quickly calls.

Turn ($2,510): 5h.
Brings in the flush, and completes some straights.
Villain leads for $600 (leaving himself $900 behind) and Hero calls.

River ($3,710): 2h
Hero now has a 4 high flush.
Villain quickly goes all in for his last $900...Hero?

Appreciate thoughts on every street as well as comments on sizing. Are we happy to get it in this deep with a small set in a limped pot, or would we prefer to slow things down on the flop (given the heavy flop action our hands may be relatively tied on later streets)? Merits of turn call versus turn jam (taking into account that we may be priced in on the river given the pot odds).

Pretty crazy hand. Anyway, I move in on the turn. His line doesn't make much sense for a flush. Most of the flush combo draws were rendered impossible by the turn or were already impossible because you hold the 4h.

this hand was obviously painful enough for you to start a tpt account!

apologies for the rather garbled rambling below as I try to range villain

It's hard to think that villain has any straights...I can't think of any straight combos that survive the flop. (there aren't even any straight + flush draw combos available given 2h-5h are all accounted for)

we have the nut low flush so we can't overflush somebody but it's useful because we now beat both 888 and 333, which must form a good part of his range

How many flush combos does he have given none of A2-A5hh are possible? Does he limp with other suited heart combos?

the other hand that kind of makes sense is AhAx which he might have limped from utg with the idea of limp reraising and somehow not been able to let himself fold on the flop.

honestly, with pot odds, the limited number of Axhh combos he should have and the fact that our river flush now takes us ahead of 888, I think this is a call

I should add that I would call river ap, but agree with feel wrath that we see lol AhAx here fairly frequently.

Just lol whatever he has playing his hand in the stupidest way possible.

Given the odds at the end I think a call is nearly mandatory.

My main questions about the hand are:

1. Does the fear of set over set (given the deep stacks and this being a limped pot) make the $1,150 flop raise suspect? Villain's weird back-raise is quite suspicious.

2. Is it better to call or jam the turn? Given that we are never folding, calling lets him bluff off his entire rage, but jamming may force him to commit his draws that he would otherwise check-fold on the river. This may tie into what we think the weak $600 turn bet represents.

I'm back and forth on the flop raise to 1150 too. Getting 500 bigs in with middle set isn't a slam dunk and we are making it really hard for ourselves to fold after we make that raise. against that, it's a super wet board and if he's prepared to be raising to 420 with a bunch of draws, then we're ahead of his range.

I think only calling turn is fine because on that street, we beat basically nothing other than 33 (apart from his limped AhAx hands). if river wasn't a heart I think it would probably be a fold tbh

1. No. It's close, but I don't assume a random 2/5 open limper is capable of folding 333 on this flop. If it was a 75 year old white guy or some known TAG reg, I'd play more carefully. His line makes it look like he's clicking buttons, potentially with a flush draw, and therefore I want to put more money in the pot. Definitely flat the $430 with 333 though.

2. Jam turn as stated earlier. You have 10 outs against everything that beats you, and he is DEFINITELY clicking buttons ott, so doesn't necessarily have to have you beat.

+1. Except I don't think it's all that close otf. I figure I'm better at folding than described v. I think I've folded a set in this spot like twice.

I suspect he raises 88 pre a lot more often than he folds sets. 84 34 and AA are possible. He could still have a huge draw otf and be hoping to swell the pot 3 ways with 2 cards to come.

And people say you cant play a big pot with a set in a limped pot? Sheesh?

Id really like to know what the "passive" BB had to bet $60 into a $15 pot on the flop.

This feels like SugarHouse

With these stack sizes I have a very hard time not raising preflop.

Also, I'd be sizing my flop raise bigger both times.

This is a really interesting hand.

Results:

Villain instajams his last $900, and Hero...snap calls. It was hard to put him on a heart, and it looked more like a last gasp bluff than a value bet.

Villain gives a defeated look and says "your good." Hero shows the 4h and Villain shows...8d4d for the abysmally played top two on the flop. BB smiles sardonically and says he had Ah8o, and would have won the hand but for Villain's unfortunate backraise on the flop. Villain quickly leaves the casino, ashen faced.

Takeaways:

1. Droolers gonna drool. Semi-competent players at 100BB can make outrageous mistakes as stacks get deeper and every commitment of chips entails growing obligations over multiple streets.

2. Villain's $600 turn bet was atrocious. Realizing that your hand is no good is not a reason to make a weak bluff. If you want to bluff jam it all in on the turn (or check the turn and jam the river). As stacks get deeper bad players increasingly turn to aggression because they fear facing large bets on multiple streets. This is terribad - if you are afraid of getting bet into aggressively the either fold or commit yourself.

3. As stacks get deeper variance increases. If not for Villain's bizzare backraise, BB stays in with top top and backdoor nut flush draw...turns a flush draw (and freezes action)...and scoops the river. Small decisions on the flop can account for swings of hundreds of big blinds in the hand when stacks are deep.

4. Folding a set is really hard and usually a bad idea...so many overplayed hands by bad players...

THis game must be a gold mine.

That’s what I was thinking lol

OP tell us it was SugarHouse!! Lol

I cant tell if you played this bad and got bailed out or if you played it great based on good reads, but none of these moves are standard at all in deepstacked poker.

Also raise pre.

Agree to raise pre in lp for this deep.

Honestly these players are killers to me, I simply couldn't understand their lines, and couldn't know their ranges/hands at all.

Parx, not Sugarhouse...sorry

This hand is an example of how semi-competent 2/5 regs get lost in space when stacks get deep...this makes the game juicy, but it can take a long time to runs your stack up enough to get in these spots.

sorry, who is the semi competent reg?

The bolded. I can't either.