Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
2/5 NL QQ OOP on scary board 2/5 NL QQ OOP on scary board

05-22-2010 , 04:29 AM
Fairly new to the table so no significant reads. I understand that my reraise preflop could have been larger, but I'm more concerned about what to do on the flop.

I'm in the SB with QQ with $550
Villian is on the button with $275

2 limpers, Villain raises to $25, I reraise to $75. Villain calls. Pot ~$160. Villain has $200 behind.

Flop comes 9JA

Hero??
2/5 NL QQ OOP on scary board Quote
05-22-2010 , 05:15 AM
The stack sizes makes this a difficult decision IMO. Any bet u make will pretty much commit u to call the rest of his stack I think. U could bet $75 then fold if he ships but that seems terrible without any knowledge of villians tendencies. I guess check to induce a worse hand to bet, it's unlikely that giving a free card will hurt because if your ahead your opponent has at best 3 outs.
2/5 NL QQ OOP on scary board Quote
05-22-2010 , 07:51 AM
I would just check fold, either villain hit the flop or its an equally scary board for his hand as well so he'll either bet the flop with a hand that has you beat or check it back and probably check the turn and river. Not many hands in his range that call a sizable 3bet and have to bluff queens off that flop so it's not worth spewing money off to make a hero call for.
2/5 NL QQ OOP on scary board Quote
05-22-2010 , 01:52 PM
Lead out! You will take it down more then you think. If you check your hand is face up, you open yourself right up for a bluff.
2/5 NL QQ OOP on scary board Quote
05-23-2010 , 02:34 AM
I lean towards a bet here with the intention of folding to any push from villain.

If he calls on the flop, I'm check/folding the turn.

If turn gets checked around I might check/call a reasonable bet - but I'll probably fold.
2/5 NL QQ OOP on scary board Quote
05-23-2010 , 02:47 AM
The problem with bet-folding is that any reasonable cbet here almost commits you. Say you bet $90, and villain shoves over the top. That'd be $110 more into a pot of $450, where granted you'd probably be in less good shape than 24% if villain has a hand he can shove with but you'd still have willingly put yourself in a position where you're getting 4 to 1 but can't really call which is just gross.

I mean, I guess you could just bet like $50-60 as a semi-blocker bet. But it would have the same intentions as just checking, which naturally is a lot cheaper.

Honestly if you bet that flop either way you're essentially bluffing with your queens, which of course is totally unnecessary. Like I said above, just check and hope he has tens or eights and will check back every street.
2/5 NL QQ OOP on scary board Quote
05-23-2010 , 04:09 AM
As mentioned by others, I think you have to check here because any bet commits us. Fairly bad flop so check/fold really
2/5 NL QQ OOP on scary board Quote
05-23-2010 , 05:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy Swoes
As mentioned by others, I think you have to check here because any bet commits us. Fairly bad flop so check/fold really
Not trying to argue but don't you think that you open yourself up to the bluff by not leading out, if a fairly new player raises preflop like this you have to be putting him on a pocket pair or AK, when he now checks you think he missed so you can now bet it and get him off his QQ.
I would bet this flop with 10,s K's or Q's, the only hand that is going to call now is 2 pair or Ax, he may just be trying to float you and take it if you check.


if you planned on checking the flop to any over then IMO you should not have raised the bet preflop, in my mind I would have been either planning on cbetting any flop or just call the bet preflop.
2/5 NL QQ OOP on scary board Quote
05-23-2010 , 06:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambit2300
Not trying to argue but don't you think that you open yourself up to the bluff by not leading out, if a fairly new player raises preflop like this you have to be putting him on a pocket pair or AK, when he now checks you think he missed so you can now bet it and get him off his QQ.
I would bet this flop with 10,s K's or Q's, the only hand that is going to call now is 2 pair or Ax, he may just be trying to float you and take it if you check.
I'd agree in almost every other situation, except the villains stack size is so small that a lot of the time we're stuck in a sick situation where we're getting 4-1 odds on a call if we lead out on the flop but probably only drawing to two outs.

It's a very weak line and it sucks to do but I'd like to check here and then consider firing turn if villain has checked back. I don't really like this check/fold method either but it has to be done due to the stack sizes
2/5 NL QQ OOP on scary board Quote
05-23-2010 , 10:43 AM
Betting the flop doesn't commit you. I'm basically turning my hand into a bluff because given the action pf I think I can get villain to fold often enough by making a 1/2 pot bet.
2/5 NL QQ OOP on scary board Quote
05-23-2010 , 10:46 AM
Standard c/f imo

Board: Ac Js 9s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 23.845% 22.32% 01.53% 49044 3363.00 { QQ }
Hand 1: 76.155% 74.62% 01.53% 164010 3363.00 { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }
2/5 NL QQ OOP on scary board Quote
05-23-2010 , 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjshabado
Betting the flop doesn't commit you. I'm basically turning my hand into a bluff because given the action pf I think I can get villain to fold often enough by making a 1/2 pot bet.
What kind of hands is villain calling a 3bet preflop that we beat? Only 1010 or maybe 88. Have to fold
2/5 NL QQ OOP on scary board Quote
05-23-2010 , 10:55 AM
LOL, a worse hand is never going to call and a better hand is never going to fold. Turning queens into a bluff there is so terribad that it's not even anything resembling poker.
2/5 NL QQ OOP on scary board Quote
05-23-2010 , 10:57 AM
Ok, I'm probably not giving enough weight to the preflop call - but you have to assume that villain is also calling with some crazy stuff. There are lots of players that are calling pre-flop with any pair, AT+, two face cards, suited connectors, etc.

I guess you're right and in general villain's not calling with a lot of crap preflop. Maybe check/fold is better.
2/5 NL QQ OOP on scary board Quote
05-23-2010 , 10:59 AM
If villain is calling $75 preflop with AT+ he is definitely calling any bet on the flop.
2/5 NL QQ OOP on scary board Quote
05-23-2010 , 01:26 PM
with those stack sizes and the size of the pot and against a relative unknown, i think its a c/f and although it seems super-weak
2/5 NL QQ OOP on scary board Quote

      
m