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2/5 NL Overpair Facing River Check Raise 2/5 NL Overpair Facing River Check Raise

08-10-2010 , 10:21 PM
Stacks; hero has $875, villain covers.

I've been at the table for about 2 hours, its a an action table and ive been 3betting/betting the flop a ton and its working, haven't showdown anything.
Villain has been splashing around in a lot of pots and has made 2 big check raises with air and got caught. Whenever it has folded to him in HJ/CO he has raised about 90% of the time. seems very LAG

Preflop: UTG and UTG+1 limp. hero in the CO with JJ. hero raises to $30 both limpers call, everyone else folds.

Flop: 478
UTG bets $30
UTG+1 folds
Hero raises to $150
Villain calls.

Turn 2
Villain Checks
Hero Checks

River 4
Villain checks
Hero bets $200
Villain raises to $600

Preflop and flop play seem pretty standard, on the turn I decided to check behind and just call any bet on the river. River was a blank and he checked so I value bet, and here we are.
2/5 NL Overpair Facing River Check Raise Quote
08-10-2010 , 10:25 PM
If he's already c/r-ed the river with air twice then you pretty much have to snap off the river here, although it does feel like it would make sense for him to have a big hand this time, like a 54 or 64 type hand that smashed the river, or maybe even flopped 2 pair or a set.

I'd still muck it some percentage of the time based on how much my spidey-sense is tingling since he's going to have to come up with a hand sooner or later and the timing seems so perfect, but a call seems pretty standard here.
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08-10-2010 , 10:45 PM
Yeah, I agree a call is pretty standard here. Tho you have to wonder.
I just can't see him flopping a set, straight or 2 pair here then betting out and just calling your big reraise. Also with (safe) 2 hitting on turn I don't see him checking to you if he has a big hand, there's too big a chance you'll check behind. If he has a big hand he wants to play a big pot.
Standard for him on river would also be to bet for value himself OOP after you checked turn if he had big hand. He may view your river bet as a steal w/AK and think he can resteal.
I call with his history, tho he may be counting on that.
2/5 NL Overpair Facing River Check Raise Quote
08-10-2010 , 10:53 PM
Yeah Call in this spot is standard. You'd be surprised how many times guys like this don't learn their lesson. Reason for his check raise is obv that you made your hand basically look like a whiffed AK/AQ hand and it's his last chance to win the pot. The river check really gives his hand away because your hand looks weak after the turn check I don't think this villain is capable of checking the river as well with a very big hand.
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08-11-2010 , 10:58 AM
Fold and c/c river
2/5 NL Overpair Facing River Check Raise Quote
08-11-2010 , 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WastedYears
Stacks; hero has $875, villain covers.

I've been at the table for about 2 hours, its a an action table and ive been 3betting/betting the flop a ton and its working, haven't showdown anything.
Villain has been splashing around in a lot of pots and has made 2 big check raises with air and got caught. Whenever it has folded to him in HJ/CO he has raised about 90% of the time. seems very LAG

Preflop: UTG and UTG+1 limp. hero in the CO with JJ. hero raises to $30 both limpers call, everyone else folds.

Flop: 478
UTG bets $30
UTG+1 folds
Hero raises to $150
Villain calls.

what are you putting him on here when he calls your reraise? ace 8 seems unlikely... 8 9 suited is maybe in there pre--- 78 maybe.... 99s, 10s, perhaps--- seems like qqs plus reraise preflop.... sooooooo--- there are 4 combos of 78 suited in his range which beat you and it seems you are ahead of everything else... 56 suited i guess is there too but i think this might reraise
Turn 2
Villain Checks
Hero Checks

why do we check here? pot control?

River 4
Villain checks
Hero bets $200
Villain raises to $600

Preflop and flop play seem pretty standard, on the turn I decided to check behind and just call any bet on the river. River was a blank and he checked so I value bet, and here we are.
very tough spot--- wouldnt he lead a straight on the river after you check behind turn... his top 2 is now counterfeited so i think this becomes a call???
2/5 NL Overpair Facing River Check Raise Quote
08-11-2010 , 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WastedYears
Stacks; hero has $875, villain covers.

I've been at the table for about 2 hours, its a an action table and ive been 3betting/betting the flop a ton and its working, haven't showdown anything.
Villain has been splashing around in a lot of pots and has made 2 big check raises with air and got caught. Whenever it has folded to him in HJ/CO he has raised about 90% of the time. seems very LAG

Preflop: UTG and UTG+1 limp. hero in the CO with JJ. hero raises to $30 both limpers call, everyone else folds.

Flop: 478
UTG bets $30
UTG+1 folds
Hero raises to $150
Villain calls.

Turn 2
Villain Checks
Hero Checks

River 4
Villain checks
Hero bets $200
Villain raises to $600

Preflop and flop play seem pretty standard, on the turn I decided to check behind and just call any bet on the river. River was a blank and he checked so I value bet, and here we are.
flop sizing is bad, i bet the turn again and check behind on river because its hard to get three streets of value with just an OVP
2/5 NL Overpair Facing River Check Raise Quote
08-11-2010 , 02:00 PM
Didn't realize your last to act. Still fold though.

I check behind the rest of the way . And expect to be beat
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08-11-2010 , 02:18 PM
Yeah holy crap I didn't realize he raised a $30 flop bet to $150 and got flatted by the LAG. Assuming he's not terrible that should set off some serious alarm bells.
2/5 NL Overpair Facing River Check Raise Quote
08-11-2010 , 06:39 PM
I think hero is cooked this time unless he is a complete spewtard.

FWIW i would not raise the flop.
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08-11-2010 , 06:43 PM
Villain's line makes no sense. He's got something spewy like 54 here a lot.
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08-11-2010 , 07:31 PM
Line looks standard to Me. Checks turn expecting hero to bet. Checks river when he hits his boat knowing hero is strong and might value bet....does....jams
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08-11-2010 , 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rizasutton
Line looks standard to Me. Checks turn expecting hero to bet. Checks river when he hits his boat knowing hero is strong and might value bet....does....jams
knowing hero is strong when hero checks turn on a blank card not many players will do that because too often hero had 99 and is simply NOT betting
2/5 NL Overpair Facing River Check Raise Quote
08-11-2010 , 09:21 PM
as played i think its a fold. Although i never bet the river when checked to me in this situation.
2/5 NL Overpair Facing River Check Raise Quote
08-11-2010 , 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AintNoLimit
I think hero is cooked this time unless he is a complete spewtard.

FWIW i would not raise the flop.
Agreed. What does a raise here accomplish? Especially that large.

Pot control is key here.
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08-11-2010 , 10:12 PM
bomb the turn. not a huge fan of pot controlling since villain's range includes a lot of pair+straight draw combos and the 2 does not complete many of them. looks A LOT like he tried to block-bet the flop and ended up having to call your Potsize raise. Too much value missed by checking.
Other option is to call his flop bet and raise the turn if he bets small again.
river...uh, sick...throw up and flip a coin?
2/5 NL Overpair Facing River Check Raise Quote
08-11-2010 , 10:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AintNoLimit
I think hero is cooked this time unless he is a complete spewtard.

FWIW i would not raise the flop.
- Would you just call down the whole way? call/call/"think about it" type of line if villain fires 3 streets, and almost always call 2-streets.

- Is raising flops with overpairs (while SPR is high) generally a bad idea?

- Should your raising ranges on flops be more polarized (bluff/top2+)?


Oh yeah and once the guy calls your raise of 150 after he donked 30 I would go into pot-control, get to showdown mode. Also if he led like 250 on the riv I would really hate life.
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08-12-2010 , 01:20 AM
Spoiler:
i called, he flashed j8o and mucked.
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08-12-2010 , 04:30 AM
I agree that Villain's line makes so sense.

God only knows what he was thinking.

He might have 45s.

I don't think he is bluffing.

I like the raise OTF. I like the check OTT.

I would check OTR.

You have extracted 42BB's with JJ...Not a bad pot for JJ.

Given the Villain's propensity to check-raise, it seems better to just check the river. (Unless to want to stack off to his shove, which I don't in this spot.)

As played, fold.
2/5 NL Overpair Facing River Check Raise Quote
08-12-2010 , 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WastedYears
Spoiler:
i called, he flashed j8o and mucked.
He is a spew-tard.

NH.

...It did take a sick call to extract the extra value...But is was a lot of extra value...
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08-12-2010 , 03:34 PM
Only bet that river if you know what to do if he pops it.
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