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2-5 NL LIVE, AA vs 2 villans 2-5 NL LIVE, AA vs 2 villans

08-07-2012 , 01:52 AM
I recently was playing live poker at thunder valley casino. I am not going to go into great detail because i was only there for couple hours, so my reads on my opponents were not very sufficient. But here is the situation:

Villain 1: Tight and aggressive player. Solid player from what ive seen.
Villain 2: Tight player and aggressive when he has a good hand, Sometimes overly aggressive, not a good value better.
Hero (ME): I have been playing tight/Aggressive but my oppenents have seen me showdown suited connectors for a win several times. So i assume my table image is Loose/aggressive.

BLINDS: 2-5 NL

Hero(UTG): AA
(EP1): FOLDS
Villain 1 (EP2): ???
(MP1):folds
(MP2):Folds
(LP1):Folds
Villain 2 (CF): ???

HERO: Calls BB 5$
EP2: Raises to 20$
CF: Calls 20$
HERO: Raises to 75$ total
EP2: Calls
CF: calls

POT: 232

FLOP:
Kd7c3h

HERO: Bets 125
EP2: FOLDS
CF: Folds

What is your thinking through the process? Did i get MAX Value?
What would you of changed?
2-5 NL LIVE, AA vs 2 villans Quote
08-07-2012 , 03:41 AM
A lot of posters give the limp/re-raise a bad rap here, but you got two players to come along for the ride so it worked out pretty well. The only (rather large) downside is that it kind of turns your hand face up. If the opposition is willing to call raises large enough to deny them the implied odds they need to try to rundown your aces this doesn't really matter much, however. You didn't include stack sizes in the OP so I can't comment on your PF sizing, but suffice to say if you were deep enough (say 750 or so) you'd be offering good odds to opponents who have position on you. If you only started the hand with 500, then they couldn't make money off you, even if you stacked off every time you got outflopped.
2-5 NL LIVE, AA vs 2 villans Quote
08-07-2012 , 06:27 AM
dont limp reraise, especially not at 2/5 bc AA and AK are pretty much the only 2 hands that limp reraise and almost every 2/5 reg should know that. You did not get max value postflop- you have an overpair on a dry board you can check and let someone fire a feeler with KQ and take it from there based on position/reads.

next time try opening pre and barreling all 3 streets to let a stationy reg call you down with KQ.

on a separate note, i would reconsider how i profile my players if i were you. i know its just one hand, but it seems really odd if one villain raise/calls and the other call/calls if they're both TAG like you say.
2-5 NL LIVE, AA vs 2 villans Quote
08-07-2012 , 10:32 AM
i just hate the limp reraise....
2-5 NL LIVE, AA vs 2 villans Quote
08-07-2012 , 10:42 AM
I personally never limp first in (and rarely second in), except on very special conditions. If you limp raise with some bluffs, or its the only way to get spr you want and it you do it was a large value line...AQ JJ type hands as well, it may have a place in an overall strategy, but overall more value is had by simply coming in for a raising.

I would rather make the the play with 67s, you would have had the same results and these results with 67s would be max value.
2-5 NL LIVE, AA vs 2 villans Quote
08-07-2012 , 01:09 PM
Starting stack sizes please. Makes a big difference.

I'd open raise to 25 and just keep barelling; you prob got max value, bc khigh unconnected is a bad flop for a likely range of vill hands (that lose to you). That doesn't mean it was played well.

Also, howve you played ep previously for 3hrs? Have you limp/called a lot? If so, I'd suggest limp/calling here (but very stack and villain dependent).
2-5 NL LIVE, AA vs 2 villans Quote
08-07-2012 , 01:29 PM
limp/rr with AA is about as weak a play as humanly possible. This is reserved soley for bad players who are unable to bet/fold premium starting hands and who cannot value bet correctly.
2-5 NL LIVE, AA vs 2 villans Quote
08-07-2012 , 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkubus
A lot of posters give the limp/re-raise a bad rap here, but you got two players to come along for the ride so it worked out pretty well. The only (rather large) downside is that it kind of turns your hand face up. If the opposition is willing to call raises large enough to deny them the implied odds they need to try to rundown your aces this doesn't really matter much, however. You didn't include stack sizes in the OP so I can't comment on your PF sizing, but suffice to say if you were deep enough (say 750 or so) you'd be offering good odds to opponents who have position on you. If you only started the hand with 500, then they couldn't make money off you, even if you stacked off every time you got outflopped.
not only is this post results oriented but your math for set mining is also off but i suppose that is subject to discussion depending on what you consider correct. imo its 15x the raise size.
2-5 NL LIVE, AA vs 2 villans Quote
08-07-2012 , 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superman1
not only is this post results oriented but your math for set mining is also off but i suppose that is subject to discussion depending on what you consider correct. imo its 15x the raise size.
In this case, its the math for reverse set mining. While 15x+ seems to be the higher/tighter number being used these days, that doesn't mean that it may not be mathematically possible (albeit thin) to use a multiple down to 10x, and perhaps slightly below.

So while 15x might be recommended, assuming villain might take stack every time they hit a set (or get under 200BB felted every time they hit a set), than the numbers may require a bit under 10x to be breakeven for your villains.

I, however, did agree with the statement that limp-rere is pretty friggin weak here unless you're at a table vs. someone who will 80%+ stackoff pre when you try it (gamble maniacs). As these are not your villains, limp-re-re is a poor line. Further, if villains in this game like to limp (usual on LLSNL tables), than you're begging for a bad spot.
As discussed in multiple posts, limp-rere also turns your hand faceup and a super-strong regs to all but the droolers JJ+/AK being a widish version of a normal regs limp/rr range.



Note: with UTG and UTG+1 limpers, I nearly always prefer limping behind the button without a hand I want to call for set/stack value, due to the number of fish to mediocre live regs who love the limp-rere with QQ+/AK. Limped pots with AA is begging for a nightmare.


Raise Pre > Limp Call > Limp-rere
2-5 NL LIVE, AA vs 2 villans Quote
08-08-2012 , 03:31 AM
First off, I hate OP's initial villain descriptions as they leave a lot to be desired.

Anyways, as played, there is absolutely nothing wrong with l/rr if our villains are terribad enough to call it which they did in this case.

They're range for calling the l/rr is probably TT-QQ, AK, KQs and it just sucks for us that the K hit and killed all our action. Guaranteed if K didn't hit V's put us on AK and probably play for stacks since V's are biologically incapable of folding overpairs to the board despite our hand being face up as AA/KK.

As played, play is fine, flop bet is fine since we can prison rape AK, KQs and those hands are in our V's range.

I also don't mind checking flop since the board is pretty damn dry and we only have to fade 4 outs. But again, K is in our V's range...

Lastly, I think on 2+2 we forget just how terribad our villains are. Yes, a l/rr is super transparent, super exploitable, unless our villains are terribad which many of our villains will be. I have no problem with a l/rr if i'm at a terribad table or vs villains that are easily exploitable...
2-5 NL LIVE, AA vs 2 villans Quote
08-08-2012 , 05:12 AM
If you are going to turn your hand face up preflop your 3bet needs to be much larger.
2-5 NL LIVE, AA vs 2 villans Quote
08-08-2012 , 02:24 PM
yeah its hard to get value from worse postlfop once you announce your hand like this preflop.

the limp/rr thing is ok given table conditions of spewy/crazy preflop action. but given your reads seem like the villains involved in this hand are pretty solid or at least not spewy players. So I think the limp/rr is a pretty big mistake.
2-5 NL LIVE, AA vs 2 villans Quote

      
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