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Old 02-04-2021, 03:38 PM   #1
BlueSpade84
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2/5 NL Line check on Exploitive Play

Villain is LP preflop with a willingness to play larger pots and gamble a bit post. 40ish WG, I've only played with him a few hours. Table has been splashy and gambly with villain getting involved in numerous pots.

Villain ($1200) UTG calls $5 - folds to hero

Hero ($1500): On the BTN with A K
Raises to $30

Blinds fold and Villain call $30 - heads up to the flop.

Flop ($65): A 2 7

Villain leads for $10.
Hero Calls $10.

Turn ($85): A 2 7 8
Villain leads $50
Hero raises to $175
Villain calls $125 quickly

River: ($335) A 2 7 8 2
Villain checks
Hero bets $350.

Thoughts: Villain's flop lead in the driest of boards seems to heavily favor an Ax, and seemed a standard "see where I'm at" bet. No need to raise him off an Ax as he would expect from AK. Sets seem unlikely to lead for this sizing and A7 is possible but also less likely to lead. No draws to mention. Despite LOL sizing, I'm fine with a call for deception.

Turn: Villain ups sizing to a reasonable bet. I raise to rep an unlikely bluff and get value from Ax. I don't want random hearts or straight draws to get a cheap river, though I think that his have seems fairly face up as Ax here. The quick call makes me less inclined to think sets, as I think he would have taken a minute to think that over.

River: Great blank card to continue selling a heart draw bluff on turn and really we only lose to A7/A8 here. Max exploitive value bet on the river.
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Old 02-04-2021, 04:27 PM   #2
Petrucci
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Re: 2/5 NL Line check on Exploitive Play

I am not letting the flop go for 10 bucks here into a 65 pot. Raising it up straight away, start building a pot.


As played i think the river is too big and not really exploitative. You will get more hero folds than you would like with this big sizing, wich is not what we want. I would go around 200 on the river, giving him a really hard time to let go of worse Ax.

Sure, if we have reads/profile on villain as a huge callingstation, then i get the big riverbet. But that would be something i bring out against the worst callingstations.
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Old 02-04-2021, 05:34 PM   #3
sixsevenoff
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Re: 2/5 NL Line check on Exploitive Play

Definitely raise the flop, don't let him get away with that $10 bullshit. I'd raise to $40.

River is a little big, but I do like going on the big side.
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Old 02-04-2021, 08:05 PM   #4
MHE
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Re: 2/5 NL Line check on Exploitive Play

What would you have done on the flop had he checked to you? That’s what you should’ve done. Treat that stupid $10 donk as a check.
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Old 02-04-2021, 09:33 PM   #5
BlueSpade84
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Re: 2/5 NL Line check on Exploitive Play

I understand the thinking of raising flop. Let's say we go $50 over his $10 bet on the flop.

Turn ($165): We bet $110 and get a call.

River ($385): We bet $250 -$350 depending on Villain.

I know there are a lot of variables, but we are not really getting more $$'s in the middle by the river. So do you think that the villain is more likely to go to the river with Ax (which is the only holding we are reasonably targeting) with the flop raise, barrel, barrel line?

I'm curious as to the perceived value of the flop raise. Are we trying to protect from a 3-outer on the turn (which is impossible to read from the board as virtually any Ax is in his range and will call flop)?

I would think that the most pressing question is how to get the most money in against an Ax hand. Granted if he doesn't lead the turn we are going to end up with a smaller pot as we will be going 60, and then 160 for a total of 230 postflop going in from our stack.
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Old 02-04-2021, 10:38 PM   #6
BlueSpade84
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Re: 2/5 NL Line check on Exploitive Play

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrucci View Post
As played i think the river is too big and not really exploitative. You will get more hero folds than you would like with this big sizing, which is not what we want. I would go around 200 on the river, giving him a really hard time to let go of worse Ax.
.
Isn't doing something too much the very definition of exploitative though? Exploitative folding is folding too much 'cuz we know we're beat as Villain doesn't raise/bluff enough. Exploitative betting can be betting too large, but counting on Villain not being able to relinquish a hand and thus getting more $$'s.

I totally get a smaller sizing on the river though for value. Not going to knock that. Very reasonable to go with 200 as well, I just went for what I considered to be an exploitative play by betting larger.
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Old 02-05-2021, 12:18 AM   #7
Petrucci
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Re: 2/5 NL Line check on Exploitive Play

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSpade84 View Post
Isn't doing something too much the very definition of exploitative though? Exploitative folding is folding too much 'cuz we know we're beat as Villain doesn't raise/bluff enough. Exploitative betting can be betting too large, but counting on Villain not being able to relinquish a hand and thus getting more $$'s.



I totally get a smaller sizing on the river though for value. Not going to knock that. Very reasonable to go with 200 as well, I just went for what I considered to be an exploitative play by betting larger.
Yes, it is exploitative size if you have villain profiled as a yuge station that will very likely pay you off. I didnt get the impression thats was the case.

Cause if not, i believe the bet is too greedy and will get too many unwanted folds from hands we beat.

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Old 02-05-2021, 01:00 AM   #8
BlueSpade84
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Re: 2/5 NL Line check on Exploitive Play

Makes sense. Appreciate the response.
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Old 02-05-2021, 05:34 AM   #9
Petrucci
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Re: 2/5 NL Line check on Exploitive Play

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSpade84 View Post
Makes sense. Appreciate the response.
No problem.

Yeah, i mean the definition of exploitative play is when you choose to deviate from your "normal" play or the standard play in a vacuum cause you have good reason to believe such deviation will net you a higher EV.

So, lets say you as a default or in a vacuum would bet 200 on this river, sizing up to 330 would require a good reason to do so- such as villain being a callingstation, and thus much more likely to pay off a bigger bet than your average opponent.
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Old 02-05-2021, 11:08 AM   #10
sixsevenoff
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Re: 2/5 NL Line check on Exploitive Play

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSpade84 View Post
I understand the thinking of raising flop. Let's say we go $50 over his $10 bet on the flop.

Turn ($165): We bet $110 and get a call.

River ($385): We bet $250 -$350 depending on Villain.

I know there are a lot of variables, but we are not really getting more $$'s in the middle by the river. So do you think that the villain is more likely to go to the river with Ax (which is the only holding we are reasonably targeting) with the flop raise, barrel, barrel line?

I'm curious as to the perceived value of the flop raise. Are we trying to protect from a 3-outer on the turn (which is impossible to read from the board as virtually any Ax is in his range and will call flop)?

I would think that the most pressing question is how to get the most money in against an Ax hand. Granted if he doesn't lead the turn we are going to end up with a smaller pot as we will be going 60, and then 160 for a total of 230 postflop going in from our stack.
Flop raise is almost exclusively to get value from Ax. People are huge stations and I expect enough of the population to call all three streets.
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Old 02-13-2021, 01:30 AM   #11
Average Player
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Re: 2/5 NL Line check on Exploitive Play

Just a guess, he has A10
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Old 02-13-2021, 07:30 AM   #12
OmahaDonk
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Re: 2/5 NL Line check on Exploitive Play

People are generally very sticky with a pair of aces so I raise flop and start hammering
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Old 02-15-2021, 09:58 AM   #13
Vecissitude
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Re: 2/5 NL Line check on Exploitive Play

I would raise the flop for sure. From your end it should be a 1/3 continuation bet just about 100% of the time since your range advantage is ridiculous on this board. https://pasteboard.co/JOtBa21.jpg
Yes you have A right now, but could and should have hands like 99-AA as well which want to get money in. It's important to try and figure out what players are limping in with and calling a raise with. At my game I have seen hands like 8T off and 9J off UTG limp and call which means if you are opening top 12-15% of your range you are massively ahead.

Leading is super weird from villain here and I get the apprehension, but every once in a while you might want to bluff with QQ and KK so raising with strong hands like AK seems to be a given. I would include some bluffs like QQ and KK. You for sure want to build this pot up and not allow villain to keep it low with a 1/6 bet.

If he calls flop raise go for 3 barrels and if he shoves it's up to you based on info that you have seen but it is likely 2 pair. Bluffing with KK and QQ on an A high board has actually worked really well for me as I got 2 of them through in the past two weeks. Of course after the hand is over everybody is saying ohhh he would only ever make that play with AK. I would only make that play if you are RFIing around 6% of your range over multiple limpers. Which is why I would favor a 2/3 pot river bet. Keeps the price of your bluff lower in case he has a monster and still accomplishes the objective of getting him to fold weak Ax hands. If you don't bluff which is a strategy that can still make you money at these levels then you also want to bet lower as you need more hero calls to get your win rate up.

Last edited by Vecissitude; 02-15-2021 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 02-16-2021, 08:56 PM   #14
tdammon
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Re: 2/5 NL Line check on Exploitive Play

I raise small donk bets 100% of the time until my opponents adjust. The player pool at these stakes tend to overfold so I can understand wanting to just call with the top of our range but I think this makes us too exploitable for anyone paying attention.
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