Quote:
Originally Posted by white_lytning
Mostly lurk nowadays but had to post because this thread is pretty good for several reasons. To me, it shows how subjective poker is and actually is a good example of why its so interesting. Lots of decent players have different thoughts on the same spot.
When I read the OP and he mentioned V being a former action guy that he has seen flat AK it didn't mean that V never raises AK. To me, its the description of a laggy player that has mixed it up in the past (but we don't know how much of a past they have). We are usually dealing with small sample sizes and just because an action player has flatted with AK doesn't mean we should take AK and AQ out of their 3b range.
I fall in the 4b/fold group because of my concept of V based on the description and being OOP. If TC provided more info about V's 3b history I'm sure it would make the decision easier for most of us because it can be a fold depending on the player for me. How often does he 3b?
I'm 4 betting JJ in the SB all day here against laggy people whether they have flatted with decent hands in the past or not. So long as it isn't an OMC type standard nit that is only 3 betting KK+ I'm putting in a 4b about the size of TCs or slightly less. I prefer to have the fold equity against a player that has any sort of thinking agro tendencies because they are usually able to 3b with some hands that JJ has beat. If its not a 4b, because V is a nit, I'm folding because I don't like burning money from the SB trying to set mine or hero call several streets with JJ.
This. When I read the V description, it definitely didn't read like a nit to me.
I probably could be V. Used to play way too aggressively, now trying to think more and generally tone it down. I will also occasionally flat AK (even in bad spots), particularly when I feel like I'm running bad. That definitely doesn't mean you should see his 3-bet range as nutted, he probably *mostly* 3-bets AK still (especially in position).
Definitely not folding JJ here, I'd expect it to still be in decent shape against his 3-bet range. And flatting gives V1 good odds + gives up control of the hand. So I 4-bet. I might just size down, since I think $280 or so has the same effect but we lose a bit less when he 5-bets.
AP, after turn checks through, I'm going for thin value OTR. Especially on a paired flop, I expect V to be a non-believer who won't fold 99/TT. Plus, if he does, there's some value in not having to show. I'd also much rather put in a small bet myself than have to call a polarized bet from him. We should mostly be good here AP—really the only hand I could imagine is slow-played QQ.