Playing 2/5 on Saturday night. It's an action game with big stacks. This was one of the few hands that ended up being a limped pot. Our casino has a rule that there can be 2 big blinds in a hand if someone isn't present for their BTN so that's why I'm forced to post BB in the SB.

Hero ($900): Mid 20s WG, I've been playing fairly TAGish up to this point and I haven't played with V at the same table but I'm aware of his loose game. He might view me on the nittier side by his standards but nothing too crazy. Had a preflop situation before where I bet 4bet/folded to V's 200bb shove after V raised EP, got a couple callers and got 3bet by another player. Haven't shown down too many hands and nothing in a limped situation.

Villain (Covers): Middle aged East Indian guy who is a regular in the game and quite loose aggro in general. He sounds like he can hand read and is thinking about hands and making decisions based on that but plays wayyy too loose preflop and gets himself into all kinds of spots where he's calling super light postflop. Don't think I've seen him make any big raises postflop although he's not afraid to put his chips in.

BB ($1000): Tight MAAG who mostly limps and hopes to hit big. Haven't seen him show down much but players at the table kept commenting on being scared of him whenever he was in the hand since he's probably got the nuts.

OTTH:

Hero (SB posting BB) gets dealt J4

Preflop:

V limps UTG+1, folds around to Hero who checks, BB checks.

Flop ($15): KJ4

Hero bets $15, BB calls, V calls.

Turn ($60): 2

Hero bets $50, BB folds, V raises to $150, Hero calls $100.

River ($360): A

Hero checks, V bets $225, Hero ???


I've seen V raise KTs in EP so I don't expect to see KJ in his range as well as I wouldn't count on J2s being in his range either although those are assumptions. I think most of the other 2 pair combos are there. I also think he'll limp KK/AA UTG some of the time but more likely to be raising that preflop himself.

Thoughts on the river decision here? Also, are we fine with bet/calling the turn there vs this V?

I don't have a strong opinion here so I'll just leave a few thoughts.

One reason I would be inclined to call is that his line doesn't make a ton of sense. There arent a lot of hands that he's going to raise on the turn and then bet on an ace river for value.

However, given that QT got there which is his most reasonable bluff that called on the flop, and since we don't beat any value, I would probably fold vs most villains. I don't think calling is bad though and there are some aggressive villains where I would be snap calling here.

Calling on the turn is mandatory.

I also definitely like leading the flop and betting turn.

I think we have to lay this down.

V called flop, raised turn, is betting river about 2/3 pot. Stacks are pretty deep, so he's taking something of a risk reopening the betting. I think it's really unlikely that this is a bluff. Reads on V are that he's loose, but not that he's making raises light. There aren't any draws on the flop that need to bluff the river.

I don't think we're good ~40% here.

Call.

His line makes zero sense. There is only one combo of 44 in the deck.

You're discounting KJ entirely?

KXhh makes a lot of sense fwiw.

I agree.

The only other "bluffs" I feel that the call flop, raise turn line reps is QhTh or Ah4h which both got there. They also fit the river bet.

Any chance this V is limping K2s this early? Waaay too loose pre read says maybe. That also fits call flop (light as you've said he does) raise turn line.

In short, I think I'm folding.

J4 case, .., (actually any worthless pocket cards)

Odds/probability of flopping two pair (using both of your pocket cards) from two non-pair cards 49 to 1 (or 2.00% chance)

Why even complete the SB for 1/2 blind OOP with a garbage hand that is not even remotely connected, suited or has high card value?

Even if you flop 2P will be the bottom two or top and bottom.

From 100 events you will lose 98x0.5bb = 49bb
If and when you flop 2P you may win 2x2bb = 4bb if your hand doesn't get counterfeited. Overall: -0.45bb per each time you make that play

Even if we take in consideration the times when you flop 2P+ like trips, FH or Quads .. that comes to 3.6% total. A waste of money, ignorance of deep understanding how the game goes about.

Losing situation,...., not disputable or deniable ..., no hope whatsoever.
Bring it on,.., proof I'm wrong. .........., Any takers heads-up?

He didn't complete. He was already in and checked. I don't think anyone here in their right mind completes that hand.

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

Ya, I think V definitely could have K2s in his range. I think the only hand in his bluffing range that we would beat is like T9hh. Otherwise ya the river is the probably one of the worst cards for us. I also don't think there's very many worse hands he'd possibly bet for value besides maybe 42s if he plays it...

BB checks what? - checks his cards? ...., haha


hero the SB cannot post he can only buy the button and in that case the guys on his left he's got to limp and call the BB because he cannot check any option (he didn't post anything).

Hero cannot post BB because in the SB position you got to buy the button for 1.5bb and 0.5bb goes in the middle of the table and the 1bb stays in front and you get option. The dudes on your left can either fold or limp for 1bb. Else, you post behind the button. That's the way we play in Vegas, USA.

In that round hero must have missed the BB the hand before. Obviously he doesn't know what he's talking about or he's confused in the middle of the bloody battle, let alone to describe the actual situation. No wonder he's playing J4o for $165 only to fold or call more like $225 for $390 total - 40% of eff.

I agree with your assessment 100%. You are absolutely correct and on the spot. No arguments with you, pardner.

...

Our casino does not have the option for a dead button so button moves to who ever is supposed to be small blind (who then posts their SB OTB) and then there are 2 big blinds.

Post their SB OTB? - post 1/2bb OTB and completes another 1/2bb


Oh,... I see.. you got some special unique game setup the same way I encountered many times in North Korea on my poker trips there looking to get a heads-up game with Kim-Fat-Boy-un the way he's got one now with our POTUS. I got that game going but Fat-Dude want to have it both ways on every goddamned hand, I protested and I windup in a poker boot working camp. (LOL) I see... all makes sense now to poor me.. OK.. mam .. What I know? ... haha ...

So you post your missed SB for 1/2bb OTB and just get to play position or post another 1/2bb? - If you post or complete the other 1/2bb with J4o you got a problem the way I explained before the NK trip ..., (LOL)
You see we cannot have it both ways because we're playing an American national card came invented around 1900 in the mighty USA not in the backwoods of the back of NK.

hate the flat on the turn. our hand is way underrepped and the heart turn brings up to many combo draws.

as played, river is a horrible card. crying call with cards already halfway in the muck

Are you 3betting the turn? I don't know how our hand can be underrepped given that we've played it as aggressively as we can I guess since it's a limped pot...