Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-25-2014, 12:07 AM   #1
Olaff
banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: from strength to strength
Posts: 1,643
$2/$5 NL: Hero vs OMC Shortstack

In this hand Hero is vs the best of both worlds. The villain combines two of my fav types of players to have at the table: he's both a shortstack ($200) and an OMC. /sarcasm

Hero image: very LAG, especially relative to table. Table is full of OMC nit regs + 1 good nit. So there's been a lot of folding around to LP and when I was in LP of course I'd raise quite wide and abuse them postflop as well and they're pretty sick with me.

Hero has 99 in BB. Folds around to V in HJ who raises to $25. Folds around to Hero who calls.

Flop: Tc5cTd Pot ~ $50

You and why? Please provide plan for further streets.
Olaff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 12:31 AM   #2
Triplerangemerge22
grinder
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 414
Re: $2/$5 NL: Hero vs OMC Shortstack

Is he double barreling against you alot? If so you might just have to fold flop as he could just easily have an overpair as AK, AQ and you're left guessing and AK still has 25%.

Usually I'd check fold to a big bet from a nit. Call medium bets and check fold turn
Triplerangemerge22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 12:47 AM   #3
octopusprime
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 20
Re: $2/$5 NL: Hero vs OMC Shortstack

What was your plan for calling preflop? This is a pretty good board for 99, if your going to call it preflop you should c/c for value on flop/turn if you think he's double barreling. If you think he's only betting with JJ+ you should have folded preflop
octopusprime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 12:52 AM   #4
wj94
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 7,695
Re: $2/$5 NL: Hero vs OMC Shortstack

Fold pre and stop giving the short stack OMCs any action.
wj94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 12:56 AM   #5
daniel9861
veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,381
Re: $2/$5 NL: Hero vs OMC Shortstack

What range do you give him preflop? If it's something like 99+, AQ+ then it's probably just a fold pre.
daniel9861 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 01:37 AM   #6
Olaff
banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: from strength to strength
Posts: 1,643
Re: $2/$5 NL: Hero vs OMC Shortstack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triplerangemerge22 View Post
Is he double barreling against you alot?
Ha ha. OMCs don't c-bet, let alone double barrel. They only bet for value and only on safe boards.
Olaff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 01:38 AM   #7
Olaff
banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: from strength to strength
Posts: 1,643
Re: $2/$5 NL: Hero vs OMC Shortstack

Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel9861 View Post
What range do you give him preflop? If it's something like 99+, AQ+ then it's probably just a fold pre.
99+, KQ+, maybe KJ+
Olaff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 01:41 AM   #8
wj94
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 7,695
Re: $2/$5 NL: Hero vs OMC Shortstack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olaff View Post
99+, KQ+, maybe KJ+
Short stacked OMCs don't raise KJ/KQ or 99/TT and often limp JJ/AQ/AK. I just assume their raise is QQ+ until proven otherwise.
wj94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 01:45 AM   #9
Olaff
banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: from strength to strength
Posts: 1,643
Re: $2/$5 NL: Hero vs OMC Shortstack

Stoved 99 vs 99+,AJs+,KQs,AJo+,KQo. 43%. Does that mean it's a fold pre? I'm getting 3:2 on the call preflop, so 40% equity is about neutral EV. I also know that he doesn't c-bet, so if his strong Aces and face cards miss flop then he'll check back flop and I can probably take it down with a donk on the turn or just check it down all the way to showdown. If he does bet flop, that means it's a safe flop and he's 100% ahead and it's an easy fold.

Hmm... still not sure about this
Olaff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 01:47 AM   #10
Olaff
banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: from strength to strength
Posts: 1,643
Re: $2/$5 NL: Hero vs OMC Shortstack

Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
Short stacked OMCs don't raise KJ/KQ or 99/TT and often limp JJ/AQ/AK. I just assume their raise is QQ+ until proven otherwise.
OK then he's not OMC by your definition. I've seen him raise KQs.
Olaff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 01:50 AM   #11
wj94
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 7,695
Re: $2/$5 NL: Hero vs OMC Shortstack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olaff View Post
Stoved 99 vs 99+,AJs+,KQs,AJo+,KQo. 43%. Does that mean it's a fold pre? I'm getting 3:2 on the call preflop, so 40% equity is about neutral EV. I also know that he doesn't c-bet, so if his strong Aces and face cards miss flop then he'll check back flop and I can probably take it down with a donk on the turn or just check it down all the way to showdown. If he does bet flop, that means it's a safe flop and he's 100% ahead and it's an easy fold.

Hmm... still not sure about this
The real question is why you want to give short stacking OMC any action at all. I would fold everything but QQ+ against this guy. They have to give action to get it otherwise you are just encouraging them to continue playing this way. I would show him my 99 and tell him to play deeper if he wants any action.
wj94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 01:59 AM   #12
ozmosis313
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,010
Re: $2/$5 NL: Hero vs OMC Shortstack

Yea fold pre don't give this guy action. He is not deep enough to set mine 99 out of position. If what you say is true you basically said your plan on the flop already.

check-fold if he bets because "he has it"
if he checks back, lead turn.
ozmosis313 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 07:47 AM   #13
gotwoot
grinder
 
gotwoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Swimmin w/the Gold Fish
Posts: 530
Re: $2/$5 NL: Hero vs OMC Shortstack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olaff View Post
Hero has 99 in BB. Folds around to V in HJ who raises to $25. Folds around to Hero who calls.

Flop: Tc5cTd Pot ~ $50

You and why? Please provide plan for further streets.
Check to showdown. Fold to any bet. Because:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olaff View Post
Ha ha. OMCs don't c-bet, let alone double barrel. They only bet for value and only on safe boards.
gotwoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 08:19 AM   #14
answer20
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
answer20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Corner of Walk/Don't Walk
Posts: 8,367
Re: $2/$5 NL: Hero vs OMC Shortstack

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozmosis313 View Post
Yea fold pre don't give this guy action. He is not deep enough to set mine 99 out of position. If what you say is true you basically said your plan on the flop already.

check-fold if he bets because "he has it"
if he checks back, lead turn.
This ... and ...

If you want to get involved here then 3-bet PF with a min-raise or up to $75 ... You are not going to get any more chips out of an OMC post-Flop (unless he is ahead) and you are OOP which makes this whole scenario a bit tougher. This is a spew move as well since you don't get to see the Flop if he shoves on you unless his range is truly 'not' OMC and includes suited Broadways. Most OMC don't fold here if raised so you are only bloated the pot since you 'know' that he wont put any more into it unless he feels save .. and you have to hit.

With 'just' 9s you are almost always going to see an over-card on the Flop which could hit him squarely.

With the paired board I might c/c and lead Turn here but its still pretty iffy ... This is definitely a c/f without the paired board there. But OMC types do get stubborn and even if you lead a safe Turn you might see him call/shove out of frustration. This sounds contradictive to my 'feel safe' statement above, but the paired board does add a bit of flare to this hand.

Can you c/r Flop? Maybe but again with the short stack he will probably just shove anyway hopeing your luck runs out. This is not so much how he feels about your range, its more his state of mind being short stacked. GL
answer20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 09:32 AM   #15
a12
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 825
Re: $2/$5 NL: Hero vs OMC Shortstack

Check/fold.
a12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 09:43 AM   #16
sauhund
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: osiasgriffin
Posts: 5,839
Re: $2/$5 NL: Hero vs OMC Shortstack

ahem, what is the question here? you obv made up your mind that you can profitable call preflop against his range and it seems extremely obv to you that he doesn´t cbet if whiffed. so what is your play now? check and fold? if checked behind, lead any non AKQ turn. with your reads, what else to do?
sauhund is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 09:59 AM   #17
Johnni2toes
journeyman
 
Johnni2toes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: A lion remains a Lion
Posts: 265
Re: $2/$5 NL: Hero vs OMC Shortstack

A lot of OMCs I know will still raise 77+; AJ+; KQs in LP when folded to, so if he's in that ballpark range you can profitably call. especially if he doesn't c-bet without a made hand. This makes it a super easy c-fold flop and lead turn if he checks back.

He might be nittier than you think, then just throw it away pre.

If a call or fold is a close decision in the pot odds/villain's range ratio, it's a good idea to put the chips in vs guys who give action and fold to nits. For the good of the game (ie: it's better to lose pots to whales than to shortstack nits) and because nits are often even nittier than you think, and donks play an even crazier range than you think.

Also is the shortstack his regularly buy-in or did he recently take a hit and not reload?
Johnni2toes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 10:58 AM   #18
daniel9861
veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,381
Re: $2/$5 NL: Hero vs OMC Shortstack

Quote:
Originally Posted by sauhund View Post
ahem, what is the question here? you obv made up your mind that you can profitable call preflop against his range and it seems extremely obv to you that he doesn´t cbet if whiffed. so what is your play now? check and fold? if checked behind, lead any non AKQ turn. with your reads, what else to do?
+1. If the plan was to fold to a cbet because he won't cbet unless he has it then I'm not sure why the plan would deviate all of a sudden.
daniel9861 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2014, 01:48 AM   #19
Olaff
banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: from strength to strength
Posts: 1,643
Re: $2/$5 NL: Hero vs OMC Shortstack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnni2toes View Post
Also is the shortstack his regularly buy-in or did he recently take a hit and not reload?
He's the kind who brings $400-$600 to a $2/$5 game and reloads once or twice (always for $200) and if that doesn't work out goes home.
Olaff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2014, 01:53 AM   #20
Olaff
banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: from strength to strength
Posts: 1,643
Re: $2/$5 NL: Hero vs OMC Shortstack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnni2toes View Post
If a call or fold is a close decision in the pot odds/villain's range ratio, it's a good idea to put the chips in vs guys who give action and fold to nits.
OK, when put this way, meaning - when it's close in terms of EV - always lean towards not giving nits action - I get it. Agreed, thank you and added this to my guidelines.
Olaff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2014, 01:55 AM   #21
Olaff
banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: from strength to strength
Posts: 1,643
Re: $2/$5 NL: Hero vs OMC Shortstack

Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
The real question is why you want to give short stacking OMC any action at all. I would fold everything but QQ+ against this guy. They have to give action to get it otherwise you are just encouraging them to continue playing this way. I would show him my 99 and tell him to play deeper if he wants any action.
I LIKE this.
Olaff is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive