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2-5 NL.  Flop Nut Flush; How to get Turn Value? 2-5 NL.  Flop Nut Flush; How to get Turn Value?

04-22-2014 , 02:20 PM
UTG is a 60+ guy in Hawaiian shirt who looks like he is playing to have a good time. I believe I played with him before and he plays fairly loose. He bought in max and is waiting for 5-10 NL. Only been at table for 10 mins so Hero has little image to him.

5-way Flop ($25) AsQs8s. Sb checks. Hero flops nut flush with Ks9s, and bets $15 (should've bet larger I think). UTG and UTG+1 call.

Turn ($70) AsQs8s3s Hero bets $40. UTG raises to $90. UTG+1 folds. Hero? UTG has $325 more.

I think his range is almost always JsRx here. What is the best way to get value? Re-raise turn or wait until river and lead or c/r? I feel like a bet/3bet turn may turn my As face-up.
2-5 NL.  Flop Nut Flush; How to get Turn Value? Quote
04-22-2014 , 02:38 PM
I don't know about such a narrow range - I see whales doing this with two pair or a set often enough. And if you can open his range to include hands that are not drawing dead, then three betting here makes sense.

Additionally, if he does only have a J high flush (other than JTss or J9ss), then his raise is likely to be the last money he is putting in the pot either way. So I think that the potential of what you gain by three betting here outweighs what you potentially lose.

As for the raise sizing...$200 seems a bit small but anything more seems too much.
2-5 NL.  Flop Nut Flush; How to get Turn Value? Quote
04-22-2014 , 02:47 PM
Flat.. Tank river for 5 mins then bet 200.. Lol ... Prob it getting too much more value against a thinking player
2-5 NL.  Flop Nut Flush; How to get Turn Value? Quote
04-22-2014 , 02:58 PM
What was pre flop action?
2-5 NL.  Flop Nut Flush; How to get Turn Value? Quote
04-22-2014 , 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beauvanlaanen
What was pre flop action?
I omitted because everyone limped.
2-5 NL.  Flop Nut Flush; How to get Turn Value? Quote
04-22-2014 , 04:12 PM
A read on V is critical here.
If he's trying to rep an s or playing a low s, which is probably what's happening, he'll fold to a raise.
If he's playing Js he'll call a small raise.

As described, flat - but if a strt flush card comes be prepared to pay it off. He's more likely to call with a decent s on the river.
2-5 NL.  Flop Nut Flush; How to get Turn Value? Quote
04-22-2014 , 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HmrHed
A read on V is critical here.
If he's trying to rep an s or playing a low s, which is probably what's happening, he'll fold to a raise.
If he's playing Js he'll call a small raise.
Based on my limited read of him, I'd say it's much more likely he is overplaying a high spade than he is making a move. He also has UTG+1 sitting behind him on the turn so it doesn't seem like a good spot to bluff. He could be raising small "to find out where he is at."
2-5 NL.  Flop Nut Flush; How to get Turn Value? Quote
04-22-2014 , 04:49 PM
If you raise, it's likely he will fold. If you call and check, its likely he will check behind. If you check raise, you will probably get a 100 out of him. If you call and lead, he might call something small that looks blockish like 60.

So... do you want a 30% chance of winning another 100 bucks?
Or do you want a 20% chance of winning another 325?

Tank for about 40 seconds... Jam. You can actually rep a wider range of hands by doing this.
2-5 NL.  Flop Nut Flush; How to get Turn Value? Quote
04-22-2014 , 07:58 PM
I am flatting this raise every time. Not sure what V is really doing here but we want to keep him bluffing if he is bluffing. I think raising here pretty much defines our hand as the nuts and only the nuts.
2-5 NL.  Flop Nut Flush; How to get Turn Value? Quote
04-22-2014 , 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bga22892
I am flatting this raise every time. Not sure what V is really doing here but we want to keep him bluffing if he is bluffing. I think raising here pretty much defines our hand as the nuts and only the nuts.
After flatting, what is your plan for the river?
2-5 NL.  Flop Nut Flush; How to get Turn Value? Quote
04-22-2014 , 09:39 PM
I am betting small around 100. It looks like a blocker so he can call with worse. It also gives him the option of bluff shoving if he thinks this is weak.
2-5 NL.  Flop Nut Flush; How to get Turn Value? Quote
04-22-2014 , 09:59 PM
This looks like a huge overplay with a spade. People tend to play more straight forward on monotone boards so I think he is rarely bluffing here. I would reraise small and then jam on the river.
2-5 NL.  Flop Nut Flush; How to get Turn Value? Quote
04-23-2014 , 01:52 PM
Results:

Spoiler:
Hero calls turn. River 4h. Hero checks. Villian checks JsTx.

I was planning to c/r the river, but I think it was the worst of the three lines. After reading all responses, it seems like call turn, lead river followed closely by ship turn are better. I think UTG usually calls a small lead OTR, say $100. I'm not sure how often he calls a turn shove. He drew to his hand and hit it and most loose Villians don't like to fold after doing that, but a b/3b line is very strong.
2-5 NL.  Flop Nut Flush; How to get Turn Value? Quote

      
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