$2/5 at Aria

Hero ($1000): Early 30's, probably seen as LAG-ish, been raising a lot pre with a couple weak/passive players on my right limping a lot. 3b a few hands from the blinds that all got folds preflop, lost a decent pot when I made a straight and the other guy made a flush on river

V1 ($900) in BB: Old guy probably in his 70's, have not seen him show down a hand yet. Has raised UTG 3 times, got low boards 3 times, check/called flop 3 times, then check/folded turn, so I guess he is opening wider than big pairs at least....but maybe he just had AK 3x.

V2 ($700) in CO: Massive fish, has been playing 90% of hands, have played with him several times before. Likes to min-3b pre with total garbage (J9o, Q8, etc). Recently lost a big pot where he raised $15 pre, someone 3b $30, he made it $65, guy called. Flop J64, he c/shoved $700 over a $200 bet and got snapped by QQ, he had AK and bricked out. He's probably in for $2k.

Hero dealt A7 in SB

MP opens $20, someone calls, V2 calls, button calls, I call, V1 calls in BB.

Flop ($120): T82

Checks around. I'd generally lead here but I don't think anyone is going nuts with Tx here and I have Ac so unless someone has a flush, set, or KcTx it's going to be hard to win too much.

Turn ($120): 8

H bets $65, V1 quickly raises to $165 with the whole table behind (FML), folds to V2 who snap shoves $700. Re-jam or fold?

Looks like a sigh fold. You've invested $85 in the pot, and now are looking at calling off up to $900 facing significant aggression. The chance that both villains have clubs is small, and a boat is certainly possible. And if don't have a boat, they have a minimum of 4 outs against you, but more likely 11. It's close though given V2's spewiness.

Edit: I didn't look close enough at V2's HH. Yeah I'm just gonna get it in... sucks that V1 shows up with boats here, but I don't think his raising range is usually that so... arrrr in... I dunno it's close.

ehhh my initial reaction is puke fold, but now i lean toward puke call.

its so hard to see a player of V2's description checking back a flopped set or T8 on the flop from the CO. given his description we have to believe V2 is capable of a spazz move here.

V1 can have SOME weaker flushes in his range.not sure if he would raise them though after board pairs and not sure how wide he is calling a raise from the BB (thoughts on that OP?)

very tough because obviously V2 cant be bluffing with like the naked Ac, but given descriptions, I might just puke re-jam. it can be total spew though.

If v2 was described as remotely decent, this is a sigh fold and not too tough.

Ergh. Horrible spot. I think I fold. I'm folding to V1, not V2. He's an old guy and what we've seen of him so far has been passive. Id expect him to have led out with worse flushes OTF and possibly not raise them OTT, and I don't expect him to raise bare eights OTT.

There's some chance V2 has a hand as well. It's also worth noting that if V2 has some random 8 he's going to have like 23% equity against us, while obviously we're drawing dead anytime we're beat.

Bet more on the turn, btw.

I dunno. Flip a coin?

Look left... How did V1 react to V2?

Yeah, this is a good question.

V1 does not seem concerned. Just shuffling his chips and staring into space. I dont put much stock into that though.

What a disgusting spot. We're not concerned about V2 here, just V1. If we call V2, we might as well shove. We can't assume V1 is nutted. He may have an 8 with a decent club.

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What hands would V1 call a raise with that are an 8 with a decent club? That would have him calling pre with a hand like 98o, and there is no way he even cares about a 9 high flush draw here.

I think V2 is far more likely to have a hand like an 8 here.

V1 snap raised on a very scary board with players left to act behind. If V1 has an 8, I think he just calls here being OOP to others.

So he is nutted with TT and 22 here all the time?

V1 as described probably wouldn't raise a naked 8 or a small flush.

I think this is unfortunately a fold.

I expect to see 88 or TT from V1.

I always push my flopped flushes. Most players are done with their hands anyway.

My post posited that he doesn't have an 8 with a decent club in his range. I never said he had the nuts.

It's pretty obvious V1 has a flush or boat (TT, 22, or T8s). If that wasn't the overwhelming majority of his range, this thread wouldn't have been written up, because OP isn't folding to V2's jam here ever.

OP how much do you think your LAG image plays into V1's decision making? Doesn't seem like V1 is quite OMC nit.

Im betting this flop %100 of the time. Tough spot but I think I gii here. (Folding flushes on paired boards is obviously best in the long run) but they could both have worse flushes. It's more likey that one has a flush and the other 8x. If they were competent villains I'd fold. Spots like this I think you really need to be there and do some soul reading. Sometimes one of them will roll over quads and the other a king high flush, other times one of them will roll over a 7 high flush and the other Jc8x. The joy's of live poker.

If V2 is a massive fish, we can't fold the NF here - he has all sorts of 8x and a variety of other pair plus draw combos

V1 raised us but what does he raise with here that didn't bet flop?

He has to bet 1010 on flop because of the flush possibilities. He may check back KQcc, KJcc and QJcc. He may also check back KcKx, QcQx and JcJx. Not saying he should have done so, but I can't see what other hands he checks back flop and then raises turn with

I re-shove here and feel pretty good about it but I would probably have donked flop

The problem with this line of reasoning is assuming that passive old guys will bet when they "have to". Let's review what we know of this 70yo:

Would it shock you if this dude checks to the raiser 99.9% of the time no matter what he flops? And I mean hero in this hand flopped a flush and "should" bet, yet here we are (I know it's a bit different because he has the NF, but still).

The annoying thing about this hand is the tension between what should happen and what a passive old guy will actually do. He SHOULD bet the flop, but will he? He probably SHOULD raise the turn with a bare eight, but do passive guys actually do this or are they terrified of running into a flush or boat?

I'm inclined to rate "when he raises postflop he has the nuts" as a more accurate theory of how random old guys usually play poker than "he'd definitely lead out if he flopped a set on a flush board".

This is an insta call. Flop is also a bet. Never checking. Would probably lean towards a fold w/ K high flush. Never ever folding the nut flush here.

Pretty much my conclusion, not worried at all about V2 but it really sucks balls when we shove and V1 snaps with a boat.

Results:

Nh.

I can't see a fold here. V1 has a wide range of 8x that you have beat. V2 is apparently an idiot and could be in it with any range of cards. I doubt V2 checks 2 pair otf and made a boat. V1 could have a boat here, and he is the one we are concerned about. I don't think V1 checks two pair or a set otf, but it is possible with the board texture. I'd reshove and be sick about it.

I'm not confident if this is the right play, but because V2 is apparently a poor player, I can see him having Kc8x and going nuts, which blocks some of the V1 full house hands. I'm guessing if V1 beats you, it's with a flopped set that he checked otf and made a full house.